Unintelligent Japanese AI (also published in War Room)

[xj900uk]

(THis was originally published in the War Room, but on reflection I believe it may get more of a response in this section...)

Hi there,

Whenever I play as the UN against the IJN, at the start of every campaign game (17 or 19) whether the setting is on historical or very hard, the Japanese always send most of their best troops and also starting merchant shipping to invade Gili Gili. No idea why it does this, true GG is a good port, but it's a dead end if you want to do an overland invasion of Port Moresby.
More to the point, my short & medium range bombers from PM, plus my B17's & B25's from Cairns and Cooktown then have a field day knocking out the Japanese frieghters and transporters (yes, even had a B17 hit something from 1,000 feet!). This doesn't really matter much if you are playing s/19, but on s.17 the IJN will struggle to replace their lost transporters. More to the point they've also lost access to some of their best troops on the western half of the map, w hich you can then gradually pound to dust as well as upping the experience of your B17, B25 + the odd Marauder crews. Any spare surface units can also do regular bombards to relieve the boredom foraying forth from Cairns or Townsville...

I have no idea why the AI does this as it seems a pretty dumb move. Occassionally they have sent odd feints and minor army units down the Solomons slot to Lunga and Tulagi (but not very often).

Anybody else out there experienced this consistent poor opening move by the IJN when on AI?

When I have played as the IJN, for dealing with Papua New Guinea I usually send the SOuth Seas detachment to Buna fairly early on (they are pretty good soldiers, if not really numerous enough) with the Shoho in the transport group to provide air cover (have had the Shoho sunk this way by a PM bombing raid, but the troops got landed ok), and the main body of the 8th Army Troops get transported straight to Lae, along with the Kazawa and also 21st Brigade when they become available. I base a unit of Zero's at Lae to provide air cover for these incoming convoys, normally they are a fairly juicy target to the PM bomber force (+ the odd foray from the mainland) but I can usually land most of the troops without loosing more than a transporter or 2. I certainly don't fritter my resources away with a massive and pointless invasion of Gili Gili.
Not to say that GG isn't useful. But I can get away with using a couple of CL's to fast-track in a garrison unit and no more, mainly to deny the UN access. If all goes well later I can air-lift in a small engineer unit to start working on the airfield there, once that's constructed I can easily airlift in more supplies or troops. But as it's too vulnerable, the only surface ships I send there are CL or DD fast transports, plus possibly one ML to set a nasty surprise should the UN decide to send in troops.
When this is all done and I have succesfully moved my South Seas Detachment and the remainder of my 8th army, then I usually heavily reinforce the Solomons and build up the bases and fortifications - Lunga, Tulagi, Shortlands, Bouganville and finally Russell Islands, usually in that order.

[decaro]

If the AI (as the IJN) wants to routinely bombard PM, then it would be better if it at least controlled Gilli; otherwise the bombardment fleet would certainly be detected as it passed around Gilli on its way to PM, even in bad weather.

Of course, controlling Gilli -- as opposed to keeping it well-supplied in the face of superior Allied air power -- is another story.

[xj900uk]

[font=arial]Thanks.  Still seems a terrible waste/burden for the IJN on AI trying to keep it supplied,  or even a large garrison force there so long as PM or even Cooktown & Cairns have a large population of US level bombers.[/font]
[font=arial]IMHO the IJN AI just runs up unnecessarily large losses.  I can understand them wanting to have it,  but just with a small garrison force which is then kept supplied either by float planes if you can spare them,  or alternatively fast transports from DD’s or CL’s.  Certainly don’t put your best South Seas or 8th Army troops in there as they will gradually get pounded to dust from the US LB’s,  or else bombarded into the next world by any US surface units patrolling the Australian coast.[/font]
[font=arial]Far better to take PM on the overland route.  I like to hit it from the east,  striking out with the South Seas detachment (as happened historically),  whilst at the same time moving down other 8th army units from Lae in a two-pronged pincer attack.[/font]
[font=arial]If you can,  I’d also build up Lae base so that you can base a squadron of Nell’s or Beatty’s there to hit any US or Aussie ships that show up,  especially to supply PM.  Blockading it from the air is harder,  but I have done it with an elite Zero unit flying CAP over it (admittedly with some losses)[/font]
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[font=arial]Overall though,  I still think it is dumbness on the part of the AI and poor playing to move a slow transport unit into GG,  especially if the USN is around or has any kind of level bombers available on the mainland.  Unless the Shoho is in the transport force to provide CAP,  then you could make a case for it,  but I’ve never known the AI to try this as the IJN.[/font]

[Custer1961]

I think it may have less to do with the dumbness of the AI and more to do with repeatedly playing the scenario. The first time I played the scenario, the IJN move to Gili-Gili surprised me.

The hard part about AI is that it does not learn or change. Thus, after the playing the scenario one time, a human has a HUGE advantage.

I think the best of the best way would be to have several strategies the AI could rotate after each playing.........ie..........the AI attempts to establish air superiority first.........the AI pushes all out into Buna and then overland to Port Moresby....... the AI goes nuts and throws all at Port Moresby...... the AI heavily reinforces Lae and goes overland to Port Moresby from the north.........etc...etc....

[decaro]

After the first time the AI moved troops into Gilli, I used PBYs based in Australia-- as there was no operational airbase on Gilli -- to quickly put personnel there first.

[xj900uk]

[font=arial]True,  as the US player you can use PBY’s to move troops in to GG.  However they can’t carry much & certainly no heavy eqt.,  I may be wrong but I don’t think they can even carry mortars.  Also,  to do this you have to deplete your naval search capability,  which is crucial for the first week or so when the Japs may well be very active moving stuff around quickly & grabbing what else they can before the slow inevitable build-up of US forces gets under way.[/font]
[font=arial]I have used these before, one moving troops,  usually the small combat engineer force that starts in either Cairns or Cooktown and the other moving in supplies.[/font]
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[font=arial]You can also use the combined US-Australian cruiser force that starts at Brisbane (in real life I think it was designated TF44 for the Coral Sea encounter) to move some troops up quickly from Brisbane.  Their maximum fast transport capacity I think is something like 1850,  just about enough for the big engineering unit that starts in Brisbane (can’t remember its designation),  or else just under half of one of the Aussie regiments that also starts in Brisbane.[/font]
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[font=arial]However,  Rabaul is a lot closer to GG,  and the Japs with their spare DD’s, CA’s and also CL’s can move in far more 8th Army or South Seas detachment troops if they so wish,  in doing so not risking their precious freighter transports (although a few troops and guns may well end up in the drink in their high-speed heave-ho ‘over the side’).[/font]
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[font=arial]When playing as the Japs I usually only use 1 or possibly 2 of the CL’s to move in a IJN garrison unit and capture the base.  I then use covering surface forces or far better the Nell’s and Beatty’s based at Rabaul to keep the US surface forces occupied,  yes I have had the Aussie-US cruiser force trying to do a fast run in probably with some troops from Brisbane,  where they encountered my ML that was trying to lay a nice little surprise for them (they sunk it,  but it had already dropped its load of mines) then got hit by Beatty’s from Rabaul that sunk a destroyer and hit hard both of the CA’s, causing the whole unit to turn tail for Cairns or Townsville before it had the chance to drop off a single soldier.  I think my carrier forces were on the move but had not yet quite got to Rabaul,  although I may be wrong here they had probably been spotted by the US which encouraged his surface forces to do a runner.[/font]
[font=arial]My garrison unit was left alone and unmolested to consolidate its hold on the place.[/font]
[font=arial]A few turns later I airlifted in a few aviation support troops (didn’t want to risk a seaplane tender) so that I could run some naval searches from the place – it is ideally placed for that and probably more benefits the IJN player in this respect,  but to repeat my original observation,  it is not worth tying up 1000’s of the best IJN troops early on,  or loosing loads of freighter transports in getting there or supplying (Emily supply runs or the odd fast CL can easily keep a garrison unit + a dozen Aviation support points well supplied) [/font]

[decaro]

[quote]ORIGINAL: xj900uk
[font=arial]True,  as the US player you can use PBY’s to move troops in to GG.  However they can’t carry much & certainly no heavy eqt.,  I may be wrong but I don’t think they can even carry mortars.  Also,  to do this you have to deplete your naval search capability,  which is crucial for the first week or so when the Japs may well be very active moving stuff around quickly & grabbing what else they can before the slow inevitable build-up of US forces gets under way.[/font]

The PBY transports are only a temporary stop-gap measure until I get troops there by more conventional means.
And you can always use a B17 squadron -- or set a percentage of your bombers to reconaissance -- to see what's going on until you get your PBYs back.

[Custer1961]

You also have C-47s for immediate transport. I often simply evacuate an Australian base (Charter Towers) and use C-47's to quickly transport the base force to Port Moresby.That more than doubles the number of aircraft that can operate in Port Moresby. Then just transfer Australian squadrons to Port Moresby. After that, use the C-47's to transport troops to threatened bases while the new Port Moresby squadrons do air superiority/anti-ship work.


1) Evacuate Charter Towers air base. Use C-47 to transport former Charter Towers base force to Port Moresby.
2)Transfer Australian squadrons to expanded Port Moresby. Use Port Moresby squadrons in anti-ship role while using C-47s to transfer troops to threatened bases.

[xj900uk]

[font=arial]Thanks for the tip.[/font]
[font=arial]I too usually evacuate Charter Towers ASAP & then get the spare airbase to PM either by airlift or more rarely sea (however the radar unit won’t fit in a C-47,  no matter which way we try to fit it through the side door)  [/font]L
[font=arial]If the IJN hasn’t occupied Buna or GG then I can always send a handful of air support troops there (GG by PBY only).[/font]
[font=arial]I take your point about using the LBA’s for naval search whilst my PBY’s are trying to get some engineers and ground troops into GG.  However,  it doesn’t start off with an active airfield,  although I can build one to level 3+ given enough time,  so the only way in until my Engineers can clear a landing strip is by PBY or fast transport.  And,  given the amount of attention that GG gets at the start of the game from the IJN,  this will be no easy task (particularly if most of my engineers end up dead!)[/font]
[font=arial]There is a good engineer unit that starts the game at (I think!) Cooktown,  with earthmover tractors and vehicles – getting the plain troops into GG isn’t too difficult using the redoubtable PBY’s,  but my spare surface units can usually only carry an earthmover or two at the most and it is frustratingly slow to get the whole unit out there particularly when the IJN seem determined to engage me in a firefight…[/font]

[Custer1961]

I did not know the individual engineer units had differing abilities when it came to building things. I never noticed that engineer vehicles played an important role like that. Thanks.

[decaro]

So that's why I could never get an entire base/engr support unit by plane anywhere!!
Thanks for that info [&o]

But unless there's more than one base support unit at each Aussie airfield, I usu. don't move them as I use the airfields to rest/rotate fighter/fighter bombers, esp. after I take Lae. From Lae, it's only one hop to Cairns or Cooktown, otherwise they will have to go thru Gilli or PM on their way back and forth from R&R.

[bradfordkay]

I also usually use the base force unit at Charter Towers to reinforce PM. By the time I really need to use Charter Towers as an R&R base, I have received new base force units in Brisbane.

[xj900uk]

Agreed re Charter Towers,  as soon as it's sent its MB's up to Cooktown,  I get it to wander over to the coast and then wait for a passing ship or friendly C-47 to take it to somewhere in New Guinea where it would be far more appreciated (usually PM,  or possibly Buna or GG if I own them).
BTW,  Dakato C-47's are very versatile,  but unfortunately they can not quite carry everything - tanks,  the bigger artillery pieces,  some of the larger AA guns,  engineer's earthmoving vehicles and also Radar Stations are no-no's.
Actually,  moving any of the above mentioned large items by any means other than an AP or Transporter/freighter can be very frustrating,  as warships assigned to FT seem to be only capable of carrying 1 or 2 at the most (presumably perched on either the fore or aft decks where hopefully they won't fall overboard).
 
I also agree 100% with Joe D - you need to rotate at least your front-line combat units,  or else periodically pull them back from the front for some much-needed R&R.  The US realised this fairly early on,  despite taking huge losses,  whilst the IJN air-force didn't seem to understand pilot fatigue or exhaustion,  and frittered away their best pilots by the end of '42 through over-use or over-extention - no wonder so many of the best Zero pilots were lost in combat over the Solomons during the latter half of 42 & first half of 43 - they were absolutely exhausted and should have been rested long before that point had reached.  Also,  coupled with the fact that as a rule the Zero's usually didn't carry radios (to keep weight down and endurance up) + some of the top Zero aces chose (never forced) not to take a parachute,  and even if they bailed out the IJN never had any form of organised search & rescue (unlike the US,  who invested millions in it to this day),  it's no wonder the standard of aircrews went down dramatically for the IJN

[decaro]

The US periodically sent aces stateside to teach tactics to new pilots, but the Japanese and German pilots usu. flew till they flamed, so they never had the chance to pass on what they learned.

[xj900uk]

[font=arial]Unless you were Subaro Sakai.  Have you ever read his autobiography,  ‘Samurai’?[/font]
[font=arial]In it he laments his frustration over his inability to pass on his hard-won combat experience, tactics and tips to the raw recruits back in Japan towards the end of WWII.  Admittedly it was very hard for him,  having only one eye and one working arm,  but I think his point is that other than a blackboard and chalk,  there was very little else he could do.  By that time (1944),  the aviation fuel situation was so critical in japan,  that they couldn’t afford to squander it on extra hours spent in the air really learning some of the true tactics one needed in order to survive.[/font]
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[font=arial]But he was definitely the exception rather than the rule,  no other experienced pilot went back to Japan to pass on what he’d learned (or if they did,  no record survives).[/font]
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[tocaff]

The US pilots gained the experience and then were used to train the new pilots, go on war bond drive tours and r&r.  This makes a big difference in a war that drags on for years.  Ask anyone who's been in combat and they'll tell you what hell it is.  Nobody should ever be asked to suffer the physical and mental tortures that are combat, let alone unabated for extended periods of time.

[xj900uk]

Agreed.  The Japanese High Command seemed to have no clear concept of this,  and were also woefully short in other areas (not just production,  but administration, support,  understand the importance of submarine warfare,  etc)

[decaro]

Nobody should ever be asked to suffer the physical and mental tortures that are combat, let alone unabated for extended periods of time.

Unfortunately that's exactly what's happening in Iraq; Guard and Reserve serving 6-month tours are being involuntarilly extended up to 18 months; afterwards, some of them are returning home really angry, esp. if they end-up in extended stay at Walter Reed.

Just like some battles in UV, green guardsman are used in lieu of regular forces since the latter feel it's the newbee's turn to take point the moment they get in-country; that attitude cost a lot of casualties in WW II.

I learned about this from returning servicemen when I was the Vet Rep at a local community college.

[tocaff]

I think that though the situation in Iraq is not a friendly environment and is full of risk it's not the same as the one faced by combat troops in WWII so the comparison doesn't hold true.  Please don't take this as a belittling to the risks of Iraq or the troops there, but remember that the combat seen in the Pacific in WWII was some of the most intense ever seen and the troops faced it constantly when in combat.  When W T Sherman said that war is hell it was an understatement. 

[decaro]

Combat in the Pacific was intense, but with long periods of inactivity, i.e., Marines secure an island, and then wait to be shipped out and eventually rotated back into combat; that could easilly take weeks.

But in so-called low-intensity fighting, there is always the possibility of an ambush/IED. No area in theater is really safe as there is no definitive front or rear; the enemy hides in plain site, disguising themselves as the "locals." In fact, they are the locals.

At least the IJA wore uniforms.