Decisiveness of battles

[Walloc]

Hi Eric,


Quoting from the manual:

4.3.2 Decisive Battles
A Decisive Battle is one in which each side brought a total of at least 40,000 Strength into battle, and the total casualties (i.e. inflicted damage, or losses to Strength on both sides) are at least 10,000 Strength. Note that the losses during pursuit that are shown at the end of Quick Combat count towards casualties. (However, any units captured during pursuit afterwards do not count towards casualties.

As i understand that and please correct me if wrong. Its the total casulties that need to be 10k+ not either sides to get a battle to be decisive. Apart from the 40k+ force on both sides. Posting 3 pic's, where in 1 battle is decisive another that should be as i understand it isnt. Difference is that in the first once side is 10k+ in other, only total is 10k+.

So isnt there a problem here?
Btw it isnt the only time i seen it just didnt read the decisive battle part of manual as closely as i did now [:)]

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

2nd pic, aka not recorded as decisive with no change in national will

[Walloc]

3rd pic to confirm that 40k+ forces was on both sides in both battles

[ericbabe]

The reports include units that are captured, but those units don't count toward whether the battle is decisive.  

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

The reports include units that are captured, but those units don't count toward whether the battle is decisive.  

Ok, im confused now [&:]. Didnt we in the post i made with the 32 captured brigades find that captured troops arent counted in the reports? else the casulties in that case should be 95k+?

So which captured are counted in reports and which isnt?
Btw baring that it wont be changed so captured troops are counted in for decisiveness, wouldnt it for clarity sake be better if its made so report tell counted casulties or both.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Walloc]

Answering me own question, perhapse.
So in HW a brigade captured before a side "runs" is counted in report casulties, but not decisivness.
While a brigade in HW that is captured after a side "runs", isnt in either?
Meaning it will be impossible to tell if there is a bug since u dont know which is which from reports.



Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Ironclad]

I have assumed that losses suffered by a unit before it surrenders do count as casualties (ie its only the survivors at the point of surrender who do not count) and these do contribute therefore to determining whether its a decisive battle or not. It would be helpful to have this confirmed or clarified. Unit surrender is the same whether it happens before or after a side 'runs'.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

I have assumed that losses suffered by a unit before it surrenders do count as casualties (ie its only the survivors at the point of surrender who do not count) and these do contribute therefore to determining whether its a decisive battle or not. It would be helpful to have this confirmed or clarified. Unit surrender is the same whether it happens before or after a side 'runs'.

I have made the same assumptions Ironclad.
Problem is i've as shown in another thread that captured troops, at leased not in all cases are figured into the battle report. Troops captured during the HW. I've seen tons of those cases btw. So i assumed that the battle reports was "captured free".
Now Eric says, casulty reports include captured troops, but not included in decisiveness.

In regards to casulty reports, it cant be both ways.... or can it [:D] <---- confused
Why i made above theory that Eric will have to dispell or confirm.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[ericbabe]

Yes, brigades captured in detailed combat are counted in the reports but not toward the calculations of whether the battle is decisive.&nbsp; Perhaps they should (though it would be a page or two of new code to add this feature) but they aren't.&nbsp; Brigades that are captured during retreat after the battle aren't counted in the battle reports.

My original rationale for not counting captured units toward the decisiveness of the battle was simply to give players an incentive to want to surrender units that are in a hopeless position.&nbsp; If we make surrendered units count toward the decisiveness of the battle just as casualties do, then a human player will have no reason ever to voluntarily surrender any unit.

[Ironclad]

Thanks Eric. So much for my assumption. Just so that I am clear - do the total number of surrendered units at the end of the Casualty report include all surrendered units and where are the casualties that count from surrendered units shown?

[dude]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

...
My original rationale for not counting captured units toward the decisiveness of the battle was simply to give players an incentive to want to surrender units that are in a hopeless position.  If we make surrendered units count toward the decisiveness of the battle just as casualties do, then a human player will have no reason ever to voluntarily surrender any unit.

That's actually a good piece of information... didn't realize that. Now that I know this I may take that option in the future and surrender instead of just getting them wiped out...

Dude