ABDA Float

[m10bob]

I have not played vanilla since CHS/RHS, so I do not know if this is a commonality of all..
I am currently playing/testing RHSCVO 6.XXX and just "purchased" ABDA "float" to move it elsewhere..It will not load!!.Something tells me it is the same as a fortress, but I did not know this..Comments??[:)]

[el cid again]

It is NOT a fortress. It is DUTCH! Dutch land units can NEVER LOAD on anything. Sorry. It is a restricted command.
I hate that.

RHS mitigates that by giving you "ferries". You can walk to any place from the NW tip of Sumatra way down to Maumere near Timore. That's as good as you can do.

While I hate the idea that the DEI - a naval territory with a navy and major merchant marine - cannot sail where it wants - I DO support the idea that ABDA would not leave. Indeed, I am sure it would never leave Java - so RHS is wrong to allow it - and probably should have a house rule about it. ABDA leaving Java is a political impossibility - and I wonder what you were thinking?

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

It is NOT a fortress. It is DUTCH! Dutch land units can NEVER LOAD on anything. Sorry. It is a restricted command.
I hate that.

RHS mitigates that by giving you "ferries". You can walk to any place from the NW tip of Sumatra way down to Maumere near Timore. That's as good as you can do.

While I hate the idea that the DEI - a naval territory with a navy and major merchant marine - cannot sail where it wants - I DO support the idea that ABDA would not leave. Indeed, I am sure it would never leave Java - so RHS is wrong to allow it - and probably should have a house rule about it. ABDA leaving Java is a political impossibility - and I wonder what you were thinking?

Actually, I have been able to move Dutch units in every game..I have moved maybe 15-20 in this game, (by 1/1942) alone..I can move them by air, I can move them by ship..No problem whatsoever...

[wdolson]

As I understand it, you have changed the headquarters of ABDA float to an unrestricted command?  If so, it should load.

Bill

[drw61]

The reason ABDA Float will not move/load is it has been assigned 3 Static Facility Sqd, so the load cost reads "static". I believe that if the Static Facility Sqd are removed or become disabled it will move/load.  

[el cid again]

I do not follow this at all. ABDA in RHS is in the stock (and CHS) slot - so it remains restricted. And it has no static facility squad. [It may have once. If it has one - it is an out of date file].

Dutch units in all versions CAN move IF you pay the pp cost to change commands. But RHS gives you far more of these than most mods do. Particularly PPO and EOS.

[wdolson]

I've never tried moving ABDA Float HQ.  Are you saying that both ABDA and ABDA Float are in restricted slots?

Bill

[m10bob]

Other than fortresses, ABDA float is the only thing I have not been able to load on ships after paying over 400 points!!......

[drw61]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not follow this at all. ABDA in RHS is in the stock (and CHS) slot - so it remains restricted. And it has no static facility squad. [It may have once. If it has one - it is an out of date file].

Dutch units in all versions CAN move IF you pay the pp cost to change commands. But RHS gives you far more of these than most mods do. Particularly PPO and EOS.

Using 6.66 EOS:
I'm talking about ABDAFloat (Slot 212) which arrives at Soerabaja, not ABDA (Slot 107) which is at Batavia. ABDAfloat has three Static Facility Sqd in wpn slot 10 which will keep it from loading or moving.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I've never tried moving ABDA Float HQ.  Are you saying that both ABDA and ABDA Float are in restricted slots?

Bill

Ah - I see. ONLY ABDA is a command. [confusing I know] ABDA Flot is a HQ. IF it is assigned to ABDA it cannot move. If assigned somewhere else - it might. Except that ABDA FLOT has a gigantic comm station - and that is represented by 3 static squads - and so it should never move. Only if badly damaged might some remnant of it move. A Naval HQ of that sort should be tied to its comm station - and in RHS it is. I confused ABDA with ABDA FLOT.

[m10bob]

This has been educational..My expensive unit will not move due to a near platoon sized unit within the command structure...[:@]
Wonder if maybe fortresses and other possible "static" units might have a special marking on them, (for us weak eyed/weak minded souls??)

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

This has been educational..My expensive unit will not move due to a near platoon sized unit within the command structure...[:@]
Wonder if maybe fortresses and other possible "static" units might have a special marking on them, (for us weak eyed/weak minded souls??)

Fortress is code. I use it whenever I want a truly static unit.

The static facility squad of RHS is a device created by RHS called "fortification." It is unsuccessful in its design role. If knocked out the unit can move. We mostly use it as a way to make guerillas in some places "plant" in a location - but retreat if hurt. But for a major HQ we use it to represent major comm stations - and they should generally not move (since you will rarely lose all 3 units). These units do not have a lot of PEOPLE, but they are gigantic. Naval Security Activity Elmendorf still exists. It is a gigantic Wollenwebber Array - a circular set of pole antennas used for HFDF over strategic distances. They feed recievers which amplify about 100 million to one - the limit possible due to noise issues - and they permit direction finding of transmissions (meaning if another station also gets a bearing you have a location).
It is not the number of people that make the unit large and heavy and static. It is the equipment and the specially selected site - which is not the same as other places.

[m10bob]

Is it possible to alter the artwork on these units themselves, to prevent folks(like me) from spending (and losing) their points, when the intent was to transport them elsewhere?
If not, how about giving them a horrendous cost as a reminder????
I have learned my lesson here, but many other players behind me may not see this thread...

[el cid again]

I do not understand the question.

Art is limited to unit type. Thus, a HQ gets an HQ icon.

Cost is - what? The sum of the elements. And in this case a static facility squad has a "load cost" = 9999 - so three of them = 29,997 - never mind what else is in the unit. That sounds pretty big to me. [That isn't under our control. 9999 is a code meaning "static device" or something like that. A gun with a 9999 is immobile.] And such a "squad" is reported as 9999 men! All sounds pretty big to me.

What else do you want?

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I do not understand the question.

Art is limited to unit type. Thus, a HQ gets an HQ icon.

Cost is - what? The sum of the elements. And in this case a static facility squad has a "load cost" = 9999 - so three of them = 29,997 - never mind what else is in the unit. That sounds pretty big to me. [That isn't under our control. 9999 is a code meaning "static device" or something like that. A gun with a 9999 is immobile.] And such a "squad" is reported as 9999 men! All sounds pretty big to me.

What else do you want?

The ABDA float unit cost me over 400 political points to alter HQ's, (to transport), only to learn in the past 24 hrs that a "static unit within" prevents ambulation..I am now asking if the artwork itself be marked in some way so dolts like me will not waste their precious political points......
THAT...is what I want..............
Maybe next to the pic of the unit on the detail screen, put a man walking with a big red "DON"T" printed over it..Anything...Something......

[el cid again]

You are not listening.

There is NOTHING special about the ABDA Flot display. It is IDENTICAL to ALL HQ displays of the same sort.
You get the icon for the unit type. You get a photograph which is the same for all similar HQ. You get a listing of the components - which indeed reveal the presence of static facility squads. You also get a total number of men. These things should tell you what you need to know if you pay attention. And there is NOTHING we can do to change them - it is controlled by code. All we can do is change the squad counts.

I think part of the problem is a thinking process. IF you thought about what ABDA Flot is and means you should not want to move it. It is a political and physical impossibility (except as a remnant). Wanting to move it was the real error IMHO. Lots of things are like that: act without thinking what it means and you may be shooting yourself (or your simulated country) in the foot. It is a service the unit won't move when you try.

[m10bob]

Maybe I am wrong, I was under the impression Dutch reinforcements would come in wherever the ABDA float was. My intent was to move it out of harms way.. Not unlike smuggling MacArthur off Corregidor??

[el cid again]

I don't think where reinforcements come is related to a HQ. I think it is related to a slot - probably the Soerabaja slot.
Note the HQ is not even present when the game begins - but reinforcements still appear.

And machts nichts if you were right about that. The concept that one might move ABDA Flot is a political impossibility. No one IRL would have considered it. It would look like you believed the Japanese could not be stopped. In fact, few people believed that, and most who did were quislings. EVEN IF someone thought it was a good idea, it was not a physically practical option. A naval command was needed in the area - and its facilities tie it to Soerabaja.

Note that moving Mac DID NOT move USAFFE. It could not move. If you want to save the ABDA Flot COMMANDER - you CAN do that. Just assign a different commander. This is apples and oranges - moving a unit is not the same as moving a man.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I don't think where reinforcements come is related to a HQ. I think it is related to a slot - probably the Soerabaja slot.
Note the HQ is not even present when the game begins - but reinforcements still appear.

And machts nichts if you were right about that. The concept that one might move ABDA Flot is a political impossibility. No one IRL would have considered it. It would look like you believed the Japanese could not be stopped. In fact, few people believed that, and most who did were quislings. EVEN IF someone thought it was a good idea, it was not a physically practical option. A naval command was needed in the area - and its facilities tie it to Soerabaja.

Note that moving Mac DID NOT move USAFFE. It could not move. If you want to save the ABDA Flot COMMANDER - you CAN do that. Just assign a different commander. This is apples and oranges - moving a unit is not the same as moving a man.

Of course your perception of the Allied mind-set is correct. If not, there would have never been the battle of the Java Sea, nor the sortie of the POW/Repulse............
Ich spreche nicht viel Deutsch, aber ich vehrstehten sie.....[;)]

[Mike Wood]

Look on unit orders screen. Unless scenario author figured out some way to frustrate code, unit elements should have an asterisk following element name for fixed elements (cannot be moved) and units which cannot be moved should have ‘Load Cost: Static’ listed on lower part of left hand data list.

ORIGINAL: m10bob
...The ABDA float unit cost me over 400 political points to alter HQ's, (to transport), only to learn in the past 24 hrs that a "static unit within" prevents ambulation..I am now asking if the artwork itself be marked in some way so dolts like me will not waste their precious political points......
THAT...is what I want..............
Maybe next to the pic of the unit on the detail screen, put a man walking with a big red "DON"T" printed over it..Anything...Something......