The revised patch seems to have done nothing

[elmerlee]

You had stated the AI sub thing was fixed. Plain and simple it is NOT.

Now there is an "f9" or a crash on defensive fumble recoveries. I could live with recovering using F9 but when a crash occurs after this thats just too much. That error was not in the game before latest patch.

If there is some "trick" to installing the patch a read-me would be in order.

I've spent a great deal of time making an editor,developing realistic plays,and working with the ratings. All in anticipation of a couple "simple" fixes.

To put it mildly - I've had enough.

[David Winter]

No fixes are ever 'simple'.
 
The beta's were given to testers with a claimed fixed list. That item was listed. No reports of problems were ever reported back. The subs work here and with no reports to the contrary, I have to think they're working for everyone.
 
The F9 bug is not something that has come up before but I'll look into that to see what is causing the problem
 
thanks

[RVD]

ORIGINAL: elmerlee
If there is some "trick" to installing the patch a read-me would be in order.

Actually, I'd like to know just how this should be installed also. Does anyone have a step by step on this?

Thanks,
John

[David Winter]

[font=arial]There are two versions of the patch up on the server so it depends on which path you're more comfortable taking.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]I would suspect that for most, the simplest path is to download the file: MaximumFootball-UpdateRelease-v13171revisonD.zip and install that over top of the existing version of the game.[/font]
[font=arial][/font] 
[font=arial]As I mentioned, the F9 problem that was brought up seems to be something new, so I'll look at it.[/font]

[David Winter]

So just to follow up.
 
1. Yes there is an F9 bug with fumbles. I've corrected that and will make the hot fix available for you as soon as I can get it.
 
2. AI Subs. I can not confirm any sort of problem with this. The AI subs seem to be working fine. I've had players sub out properly as they become fatigued. So, assuming that the depth charts are correct, and the players are indeed fatiguing (if you have fatigued turned off, there will be no subs) then players should be subbing out.
 
thanks
David

[Scott_WAR]

The AI isnt subbing in simmed games for me either. I simmed a few more games tonight, and not once did anyone other than the starting RB, FB or QB ever run the ball. In one game the starting RB ran over 20 times for well over 100 yards, so there is no way he wasnt fatigued at some point.


I am still seeing the issue of the game log just ending a game with lots of time left on the clock after a kickoff. Tonight a TD was made, and the extra point was made with 5:24 left. Yet the kickoff afterwards was the last play of the game.

[David Winter]

Do you have fatigued turned on?

And we're talking about played out 3D game? Not sim games?

[Scott_WAR]

Simmed games. Playing games, and simming games in the same league doesnt work, because the sim engine doesnt match up at all with the results a played out game gives. So if you want any kind of consistency of stats you have to either play or sim all games. Since playing out every single game isnt really an option.........................

So is fatige off for simmed games? I have never seen an option to turn it on or off for simmed games so I figured it was on. We really should be given an option for fatigue and injuries in simmed games. If simmed games dont use fatigue, or give us the choice, that just makes stats even more inconsistent from played to simmed games.

[David Winter]

Well, there's the confusion then. As a simmed game has no interface to show players being subbed in or out, you're not going to see subs in a sim game. Sim games always have injuries and fatigue on. But, as I said, there is nothing displayed on screen or in any logs to indicate a player was not involved in a couple of plays due to being subbed out.

All the AI sub work was done on the 3D game. And as near as I can tell, it's working as it should. Players are on the field for one play, and if they're overly fatigued, they're swapped out for the next.

I did spend some time trying to find out why Running backs would not be subbed out in the 3D game and I've come to the conclusion that it's probably the fatigue threshold for those players is too high. While I do see them being subbed out it's not common because it's possible that they never reach the fatigue point that would see them sub out.. for various reasons. Players rest, players don't carry the ball every play, etc.. Unless the AI runs the ball with the same player 5 or 6 times consecutively (with no change of possession or break in the play) you're probably not going to see a running back fatigue to the point he's subbed out.

[Scott_WAR]

So, you are trying to tell me, in a 15 minute per quarter game, a RB probably wont get fatigued enough to be subbed out??????? That needs to be fixed because it is completely unrealistic.


Edit- Also, substitutions should be made when one team is winning by a large margin.

[David Winter]

No.. that's not what I'm saying. Please read what I wrote. Players get subbed out when they fatigue. If the fatigue skill of your players is too high for your liking, you can lower that skill and players will sub out more. I don't think there's anything to be fixed there. And yes, if a back never carries the ball, or does so rarely, he's likely not going to be subbed out at all. Different rules require different uses of players.

[Scott_WAR]

  When I sim games, 15 minute per quarter, I am NEVER seeing the 2nd string RB get any carries. Either the first string RB isnt getting subbed out at all OR when he is the AI isnt calling any running plays.
 
 Im going to run a test. Im going to make a playbook with one running play. I'll try simming a few games(15 minute quarters) with a team using that playbook and see if the 2nd string RB actually gets any carries. If not, then something is wrong.

[Scott_WAR]

I simmed 3 games, using 15 minute quarters. One team had a playbook with 1 running play and thats it. They ran that one running play every snap. The results--

Game 1... 43 rushing attempts for 206 yards...... all by one player.......... never subbed.
Game 2- 37 rushing attempts for 61 yards........all by one player....... never subbed.
Game 3- 45 rushing attempts for 216 yards....... all by one player.......never subbed.

[grrncore]

just got the patch and so far i have not notice a change.

[David Winter]

Well, I don't know how many different ways to say it. You're talking about the quick sim game and I'm talking about the AI subs for the 3D game.

[Scott_WAR]

Ok, I understand, BUT dont you think subs should work in the sim game too? Do you plan to fix it so subs work in simmed games?

[elmerlee]

Part of David's post above --

"So just to follow up. "

"1. Yes there is an F9 bug with fumbles. I've corrected that and will make the hot fix available for you as soon as I can get it. "

So is this now available ?????????????

[elmerlee]

This is a "Hot-Fix" - right ?

[Scott_WAR]

I'll ask again, since subs are NOT happening in simmed games, do you plan on fixing it?

This game is supposed to simulate the game of football, and substitutions are a very important part.

[Deft]

Quick sims are going to be completely rewritten at some time so I don't think Dave's emphasi is to fix something that doesn't work right now and will change soon.