March attrition bug?

[Gray_Lensman]

I was playing as the Union in the Historical Coming Fury Scenario v1.9.16d at First Sergeant Difficulty

I basically only march moved 3 units (the rest were by railroad)

1) The Army of the Potomac (renamed) from Fredericksburg, VA. to Annopolis, MD.
2) SW Expedition w/Lyon in command from Black River, MO. to Rolla, MO.
3) The 66th Indian Brigade from Neosho, KS to Topeka, KS
No Force Marches

The SW Expedition Division starts with four units:
25th Inf Brig. w/900 men
26th Inf Brig. w/1400 men
27th Inf Brig. w/1300 men
28th Inf Brig. w/2300 men

After the <End> turn
25th Inf Brig. has 911 men
26th Inf Brig. has 1418 men
27th Inf Brig. has 1316 men
28th Inf Brig. has 2329 men

According to the report 1230 reinforcements were distributed to 5 brigades, but none to the SW Expedition brigades.
specifically:

300 to 59th Inf Brig. at Grafton, WV. going from 2000 to 2300
300 to 44th Inf Brig. at Indianapolis, IN. going from 2500 to 2800
300 to 43rd Inf Brig. at Indianapolis, IN. going from 2500 to 2800
300 to 42nd Inf Brig. at Indianapolis, IN. going from 2500 to 2800
30 to 41st Inf Brig. at Indianapolis, IN. going from 2500 to 2530

obviously all reinforcements are accounted for.

So, the question is why did the SW Expedition units gain men (approx. 1.25%) instead of losing the traditional 5%

The 66th Indian Brig. behaved normally and went from a starting 1000 men to 950 men.




Another item related to march attrition is illustrated by the Army of the Potomac above.

I had set the AoP to march move to Annapolis, MD, and to avoid combat.

During the End Turn processing, it of course, inevitably is challenged to a battle by superior Confederate forces. When the detailed battle is initiated, all a player has to do is hit the <retreat> button immediately, followed by the hourglass and the entire army is retreated with no losses on either side, resulting in a retreat into Anapolis in this case, and NO LOSSES for the retreat or march. This occurs whether the unit was supposed to march move or not. I would think in retreat cases where an army is forced to retreat that it should have to suffer the 5% attrition losses (at a minimum) for the battle, especially if there was 0 casualties on either side in the battle.

I know this is an exploit, but this also can be a PBEM issue.

edit:
I also have the Savegames if interested.

[Walloc]

Can i ask what was the logistic's ratings for the container housing the different units are?

I've occationally since around 1.9.4 seen some cases where units with good and higher ratings containers seems to get back some men from marches.
While its according to rules that units with good+ should have lower march attrition, ofc they shouldnt actually gain men. Or else i fail on the understanding of the concept of strategic consumtion.
Im actually in the process of making some tests to show Eric, this exact thing.
Problem is pinning down exactly which cases it happens in. Which should make it easier on Eric, to fix code wise.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Gray_Lensman]

The above case is totally repeatable. First turn of the Coming Fury Historic game.

edit:

For Lyons SW Expedition:

Logistics staff: Great
Command staff : Terrible

Going by what you said about Good+ Logistics staffs recovering men, I wonder if "Great" means it gains approx. 1.25%. If so, I would think that it should apply against the traditional 5% loss. In other words the units, should have lost 3.5%. instead of 5%, due to the logistics staff rating. I'm only guessing here, BTW.

In the example above, it looks as if the possible logistics staff gain is applied, without applying the original loss in the first place.

[Gray_Lensman]

Okay, reread the march attrition rules:
&nbsp;
It refers to Good or higher logistical staffs reducing march attrition losses for Forced Marches from 2.5% to 5% respectively. I wonder if they also reduce normal march attrition losses from 1.25% to 2.5% respectively also. That would make sense. Now there might be an explanation for the 1.25% in my original example above, since a "Great" logistical staff rating is one level better than "Good".&nbsp;This seems to point to the fact that the 1.25% is added to the original number of men, instead of being used as a lower march attrition percentage.
&nbsp;
If this theory is right, then the results should have been:
&nbsp;
25th Inf Brig.&nbsp;should&nbsp;end up with&nbsp;889 men
26th Inf Brig. should end up with 1383 men
27th Inf Brig. should end up with 1284 men
28th Inf Brig. should end up with&nbsp;2271 men
&nbsp;
We need Ericbabe to weigh in on this one.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Gray_Lensman

In the example above, it looks as if the possible logistics staff gain is applied, without applying the original loss in the first place.

This is been my theory too.

As in regards too great vs good rating. I dont think it has any bearing. In the manual and in the readme's there isn any thing that changes that. The next step in regards to logistic ratings is Superior, where u remove the march attrition all together.

Why i see the inconsitance and what i think is the real cause to why at times u actually gain men has to do with the change on how disposition now also plays in. From 1.9.4. readme.

• March Attrition
• March attrition, chance of lowering disposition has been increased from 5% to 6.25%; this chance is now doubled while force-marching to 13%.
• Loss from march attrition is now dependent on disposition:
o Rebellious: Loss is 10%
o Disorganized: Loss is 5%
o Low: Loss is 2.5%
o Normal: Loss is 1.25%
o Inspired: Loss is .83%
o Zealous: Loss is .5%

I think the cases of gaining men is a combination of good+ ratings and disposition.
Hench also why its easily reproduable in ur case. Ur Disposition doesnt change if u reload.
Its in which exact cases that the 2 play into each other that is interesting.

Does the the 2 bonuses cancel each other out so that at at normal for example u lose 1.25 but gain x amout from good ratings to an actual gain.
Since u have some examples cant u check if the disposition is different in ur units, please?
and see if that gives different % gain / loss results.


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[Gray_Lensman]

Walloc: FYI

Before processing the <End Turn> the disposition for SW Expedition and all its units was "Normal".

After the "End Turn"
SW Expedition itself and the 28th Inf Brig. was changed to "Low Disposition"

I don't see the relationship in the disposition (changes) and the numbers I am seeing. In other words they all change to the positive by approx. the same percentage, even though not all of them have a disposition change.

[ericbabe]

It does seem that good logistics can cause a negative loss during march attrition with high disposition; I will fix.

[Gray_Lensman]

LOL, "Negative Loss". Only a programmer would phrase it that way. Cool!