Axis and Oil

[Hard Sarge]

okay, I only have 2 games under my belt, so do not have all that much time into the game

but, I don't understand the logic

I can see it, if the Axis is not takeing Oil Fields or are being bombed (IE, 8th, 15th, BC and the Russian Ground troops, is the reason the Axis have Oil trouble in real life)

in my last game, I took out the English Isles, the Middle East, and Russia, why do I have Oil trouble ?

[Barthheart]

You took out England and Russia..... doesn't sound like your have oil trouble to me.....[:D]

[YohanTM2]

How much armor, air etc. did you build? Maybe too much?

If not, not good.

I just started a PBEM game with oil on so will keep you posted.

[IrishGuards]

In the games I am playing Oil .... Germany is going through the stuff like water ...
Moving ground troops soaks it up .. Invading neutrals ... no oil there ..!!!
Builds is 1 thing ... Fleet uses Oil like crazy ..
I have even had warnings from the game ....[X(]

And why if I am going through all this oil ,,, some of my air is 3 supply [:@]
Norway and N Afr ...
I say every little bit helps ... Where are my Synth plants ...
Where are the oil feilds in Austria .... I don't see em on the map ..[;)]
IDG

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: IrishDragoonGuards

In the games I am playing Oil .... Germany is going through the stuff like water ...
Moving ground troops soaks it up .. Invading neutrals ... no oil there ..!!!
Builds is 1 thing ... Fleet uses Oil like crazy ..
I have even had warnings from the game ....[X(]

And why if I am going through all this oil ,,, some of my air is 3 supply [:@]
Norway and N Afr ...
I say every little bit helps ... Where are my Synth plants ...
Where are the oil feilds in Austria .... I don't see em on the map ..[;)]
IDG

well, that is the point, with out the Bombing Campaign and the Russian ground troops overrunning the fields, the Axis, while a concern, were not "short", and if they are able to capture fields they did not during the war, and keep what they got intact, then they really shouldn't be having trouble

I mean, crippling the oil supply of the Axis should be a major goal of the Allies, not a "given" since it did happen

(of course, we can turn that off, but it was posted the game was designed with Oil turned on in mind)

also, when Romy joins the Axis, why are there oil fields not listed as being part of the Axis ?

the hassle being, it forces the Human player to do stuff that wasn't done, just to keep going

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Yohan

How much armor, air etc. did you build? Maybe too much?

If not, not good.

I just started a PBEM game with oil on so will keep you posted.

I can't get to the auto save to check (started a new game)

but I think it was 14 Armor and 6 Air

which in 42-43, I had 6 Armor and 4 air (4 of the Armor were in England, I was able to pull out two of them ship them to northern Russian)(I went with Inf Corps over Motorized)

[Dave Ferguson]

fourteen armour!. no wonder you have oil problems, if all that lot move it is 42 oil points and another 42 if they all fight, and does that include defending[:)]
 
I wonder if the Rumanian wells are factored into the basic german supplies?
 
In my present game it is manpower that is the problem, well in the red and nearing zero[:(]

[firepowerjohan]

Running out of oil stores and oil production is not the same thing. Having 0 oil just means you have nothing stored but since you get production each turn you can move some units. Simply if you collect 40 oil per turn and have units consuming 60 oil if all moved means you can in fact move two thirds of them.

There is always a limit but since you conquered USSR and are winning the game means you are not taking much losses. That means you can keep building armour until you reach your cap. Try to reduce oil consumption by using railroad more often even if it cost some production points overusing it. The default option in game is that oil consumption is off so this feature is for the experts who know the tricks. Also remember that even if you run out of oil you will get oil points every turn which means you can move some units but not all.

[Dave Ferguson]

what happens when your manpower reaches zero[:(]

[Twotribes]

You also receive a small boost of manpower every turn, I believe it is based on the starting manpower?

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Dave Ferguson

what happens when your manpower reaches zero[:(]

well, before you get to 0, you get messages that you are running low and are getting poor troop replacements, after that, you start getting really poor replacements

once you run out, you get very lousy troops

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Dave Ferguson

fourteen armour!. no wonder you have oil problems, if all that lot move it is 42 oil points and another 42 if they all fight, and does that include defending[:)]

I wonder if the Rumanian wells are factored into the basic german supplies?

In my present game it is manpower that is the problem, well in the red and nearing zero[:(]

14 Armour in overall setting is not really a lot, how else are you going to defeat the Russian Hordes ?

a level 22 tank, will not kill a Partasen unit out of supply in one battle, let alone a supplied and high level Russian Armour unit

(one thing odd, the USSR units were very high level, the US and UK units that tried to land in France in late 44, were low level, and hopelessly out classed by my western forces (in fact, since the IT had manpower, I started building and shifting IT Inf Corps, and a level 14 Inf will beat a level 4 Armour unit any day of the week)

(just in case, if you click on Upgrade, it shows your current level and the level you can upgrade to, along with what level the enemy units are at)

[Hard Sarge]

already have said something about Oil, but other things that seem odd
 
how small the French army is, it was larger then the Germen Army, just not as well trained or lead (and in most cases, very high command let the troops in the field down, not the troops)(also, the French had more tanks, and in some areas, better tanks (Armor and Guns) while the GE had better training and planning on how to best use there tanks)
 
also, the English had a larger Industy base then the GE did, yes Land lease was of major importence, but they were still able to build things (the most importent thing about land lease, was it allowed the English to build what they wanted to build, while buying what they didn't) 
 
also, strange in these kinds of games, why does the WWI attack plan work so well, when it failed (well, with out total FOW I guess it would be impossible to pull off Von Mansteins wonder)
 
 

[bssybeep]

Hard Sarge,
 
I totally agree with your Axis oil comments.  I captured the majority of the oil rigs on the map and I still run short every turn.  Air and naval really suck it up.  Personally I think it is a bug, if I capture most of the oil rigs on the map, I should be getting more than the measly 60 or so barrels every turn.  I agree that the Axis oil shortages should not be a given in game terms.  In my game I have England, France and most of Russia.  I should not be running out of oil every turn.

[targul]

If you have captured that much you must have a huge army and it is probably of the oil using units.  It also means you have a vast empire to support.  Sounds about right to me. 
 
Good to see some controls on the Panzer Pushers.

[IrishGuards]

Well does not make sense to me .... [&:]
With the Strategic deployment very limited ..... And I mean very limited ...
When Italy comes on the Axis can rail move just 2 units a turn ... what a riot .. [X(]
This means they have limited the Rail net to balance the game ... with it being unbalanced by Oil usage ... 7 extra PP for 1 rail move ..
That's what you get from Poland every 2 turns ...
Axis has to attack neutrals .. Otherwise no more PP's .. and yet you do not benefit in any plunder of Armed forces or raw materials ..
Plus the game only gives you 50% value for conquered resources ...
That means to attack and take a neutral out for the limited amount you will get ... you have used more Oil than you will ever see in PP ...
This is without even factoring In any Allied response ....
If I am running out of Oil in Early 1941 before Russia is even attacked .. this is a huge issue ...
Strategic games mean that new startegies must .. !! be a given in the game ..
Otherwise no flavor whatsoever ... [8|]
Nay makes sense to me ..
IDG

[Dave Ferguson]

ORIGINAL: bssybeep

Hard Sarge,

I totally agree with your Axis oil comments.  I captured the majority of the oil rigs on the map and I still run short every turn.  Air and naval really suck it up.  Personally I think it is a bug, if I capture most of the oil rigs on the map, I should be getting more than the measly 60 or so barrels every turn.  I agree that the Axis oil shortages should not be a given in game terms.  In my game I have England, France and most of Russia.  I should not be running out of oil every turn.

England, France and most of russia wont give you any more oil, England and France dont have any and only the russian caucasus field will do that, plus your occupation armies are going to use oil even if not represented in the game.

Panzers are nice but motorized corps use a lot less oil and are higher quality for just over half the price. If you are not facing hordes of tanks you dont need large numbers yourself, just a few to punch the hole. Use the motorized to exploit

[Hard Sarge]

well
 
how does the AI do it ?
 
you say I had too many Oil burnings, I started a Allied game, in 41, the Axis has at least 4 GE Subs
 
I see (FOW on) at least 7 Axis Armor (1 It) (not counting the 3 I have taken out), I see as many Motor units as Armor, plus, I seen at least 5 Fighters (6 if the Romy one is counted) 3 Tac Air
 
plus, the Tac Air is showing as 110s, so advanced, the Armor is at level 6
 
that is alot of newly bought units, besides the reseach costs, upgrade costs
 
Hmmm the GE have lost close to 4500 tanks so far, so replacement costs should also been pretty high
 
(may not be realistic, but it is a bit of a challenge at the start)
 
 

[targul]

Personnally, when I played the Axis I found oil was short in my first game when I abused oil.  After that I developed infantry they require zero oil.  I moved tanks only when it counted.  I normally moved all oil using units with my two rail.
 
I only use air when it is necessary.  What I am saying I learned not to overuse my oil.  I watch it very closely and determine when I will use tanks, motorized infantry and air when it really necessary. 
 
I take towns so I can move my oil units up.  They dont use much if they only attack and advance is free after that.  So I let those greeding Russians come and get it.
 
Works good for me but did require me to learn how vital oil was to my army.

[Hard Sarge]

Yes, but you miss the point
 
if you are able to take the Major Oil fields the Axis were not able to take, and also do not let the Allied take (knock out) the Oil fields you do have, you shouldn't have trouble with lack of Oil