Ok, lets suppose I just lost all my carriers.

[crsutton]

Now, mind you, I am not saying that I have lost all of my American carriers....

But lets suppose I just did

Lets suppose that I just attempted to invade Lunga on 9/1/42, and lets suppose that the invasion was going pretty well with most of my troops ashore. Then lets just suppose that KB shows up and the most lop sided battle in history takes place where the entire undetected KB launched every god damn plane and then some from 5 hexes away. Then lets suppose that the 80 or so zero escort blew my pitiful wildcats out of the sky and then I had to watch helplessly while 200 or more kates and vals rained bombs down of my pitiful carriers and let just imagine that in spite of my fast BB, plenty of CAs and CLAAs that I only manged to shoot down about 30 of the attacking bombers. And let just hypothisize that the IJN was pretty much able to duplicate that feat in the PM attack, where I then had no CAP and could only cry like a little girl as my precious babies took bomb after bomb and were turned into floating charnel houses.

Did I forget to mention that none of my planes managed to fly an offensive mission and KB in all its glory lies two hexes off of Lunga with nary a scratch? Well, lets just supposed that happened too.

So lets just visualize the resulting mayhem that will rain down upon my exposed transports and AKs who devoid of air protection will be caught next turn and beat on like a 10 dollar whore-resulting in the stranding and eventual elimination of my 1st marine division and all of the various support units that I have stuck on Lunga with nothing at all to eat...OMG! I SIMPLY WANT TO KILL MYSELF!!![:@] [:@] [:@]

Well, I am not saying that this actually happened, but for the purpose of intellectual discorse, lets just assume that it did.

I know that these supposedly lost carriers will get replaced eventually. How long will that take?

I think I need to go lie down for a while.

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Now, mind you, I am not saying that I have lost all of my American carriers....

But lets suppose I just did

Lets suppose that I just attempted to invade Lunga on 9/1/42, and lets suppose that the invasion was going pretty well with most of my troops ashore. Then lets just suppose that KB shows up and the most lop sided battle in history takes place where the entire undetected KB launched every god damn plane and then some from 5 hexes away. Then lets suppose that the 80 or so zero escort blew my pitiful wildcats out of the sky and then I had to watch helplessly while 200 or more kates and vals rained bombs down of my pitiful carriers and let just imagine that in spite of my fast BB, plenty of CAs and CLAAs that I only manged to shoot down about 30 of the attacking bombers. And let just hypothisize that the IJN was pretty much able to duplicate that feat in the PM attack, where I then had no CAP and could only cry like a little girl as my precious babies took bomb after bomb and were turned into floating charnel houses.

Did I forget to mention that none of my planes managed to fly an offensive mission and KB in all its glory lies two hexes off of Lunga with nary a scratch? Well, lets just supposed that happened too.

So lets just visualize the resulting mayhem that will rain down upon my exposed transports and AKs who devoid of air protection will be caught next turn and beat on like a 10 dollar whore-resulting in the stranding and eventual elimination of my 1st marine division and all of the various support units that I have stuck on Lunga with nothing at all to eat...OMG! I SIMPLY WANT TO KILL MYSELF!!![:@] [:@] [:@]

Well, I am not saying that this actually happened, but for the purpose of intellectual discorse, lets just assume that it did.

I know that these supposedly lost carriers will get replaced eventually. How long will that take?

I think I need to go lie down for a while.

LOL....I suppose that you are screwed for awhile.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Now, mind you, I am not saying that I have lost all of my American carriers....

But lets suppose I just did

Lets suppose that I just attempted to invade Lunga on 9/1/42, and lets suppose that the invasion was going pretty well with most of my troops ashore. Then lets just suppose that KB shows up and the most lop sided battle in history takes place where the entire undetected KB launched every god damn plane and then some from 5 hexes away. Then lets suppose that the 80 or so zero escort blew my pitiful wildcats out of the sky and then I had to watch helplessly while 200 or more kates and vals rained bombs down of my pitiful carriers and let just imagine that in spite of my fast BB, plenty of CAs and CLAAs that I only manged to shoot down about 30 of the attacking bombers. And let just hypothisize that the IJN was pretty much able to duplicate that feat in the PM attack, where I then had no CAP and could only cry like a little girl as my precious babies took bomb after bomb and were turned into floating charnel houses.

Did I forget to mention that none of my planes managed to fly an offensive mission and KB in all its glory lies two hexes off of Lunga with nary a scratch? Well, lets just supposed that happened too.

So lets just visualize the resulting mayhem that will rain down upon my exposed transports and AKs who devoid of air protection will be caught next turn and beat on like a 10 dollar whore-resulting in the stranding and eventual elimination of my 1st marine division and all of the various support units that I have stuck on Lunga with nothing at all to eat...OMG! I SIMPLY WANT TO KILL MYSELF!!![:@] [:@] [:@]

Well, I am not saying that this actually happened, but for the purpose of intellectual discorse, lets just assume that it did.

I know that these supposedly lost carriers will get replaced eventually. How long will that take?

I think I need to go lie down for a while.

Depends a bit on if you have variable replacements on, i think... but something like 1.5 years...


EDIT: Good thing this is just an intellectual exercise!! [8|] [:'(]

[wworld7]

for the purpose of intellectual discorse

Maybe it was a dream?

[USSAmerica]

Let's just suppose that this didn't actually happen.  We would all get an awesome laugh out of talking about it as a "what if."  [;)][:D]
 
If we suppose that it were to actually happen, you would probably be slowed down in your advance for more than a year.  On the normal reinforcement schedule you would get a few CVL's in the next year, but the only CV would be Essex.  You will (I mean would) start getting the bulk of the Essex class CV's right about the same time that you get the respawned versions of the CV's lost at Lunga, early in '44. 

[crsutton]

EDIT: Good thing this is just an intellectual exercise!! [8|] [:'(]
[/quote]


My head hurts.......

[Mark VII]

For the purpose of intellectual discorse you sure have alot of detail! You should write for a living.[:)]

[Mark VII]

you probably need to use overwellming land based airpower and try to move up through NG(provided you still have PM) or out of Darwin or both! Just beat down the Jap airforce with superior numbers like we did in RL.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Now, mind you, I am not saying that I have lost all of my American carriers....

Does the hypothetical "all" mean, hypothetically "6"?

[siRkid]

I've played without carriers as the allies and you  can still take the offensive. You just have to attack in areas that are in range of your land based aircraft. Its slow tough work but it can be done. 

[TheTomDude]

As a jap player I can only say ....BANZAI [:D]

Your post was a good read though. Had a grin on my face while reading.

[crsutton]

[[/quote]

Does the hypothetical "all" mean, hypothetically "6"?

[/quote]

Possibly.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Kid

I've played without carriers as the allies and you  can still take the offensive. You just have to attack in areas that are in range of your land based aircraft. Its slow tough work but it can be done. 

I hold PM with some force now, but don't see how I can stop him from interdicting supply there.

And, considering he has an unscathed KB, what is to stop him from just rotating some fast carriers, a few oilers and a CS or two out to my supply line from the West Coast and just sort of shutting off the faucet for a year or so? I think that is what I would do if I were the IJN.

Just supposing here.

[kaleun]

See the thread "Shame and Execration" in the AARs. That's pretty close to what happened to me vs Warspite. Fortunately we were playing stock, so there was the fictitious rail line to Darwin that allowed me to start an offenssive From Timor into NG and the DEIs.
Still I lost the game on autovictory on Jan 45, [8|]but it was a good game.
I don't think it will work as well in the CHS map. You do need to hold PM and have sea superiority to supply Darwin in that one.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Mark VII

you probably need to use overwellming land based airpower and try to move up through NG(provided you still have PM) or out of Darwin or both! Just beat down the Jap airforce with superior numbers like we did in RL.

This is my thought exactly. Also the KB can't be everywhere at once. Try multiple advances, covered by LBA, all at the same time. However, any sort of advance through the Central pacific is virtually out of the question.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Now, mind you, I am not saying that I have lost all of my American carriers....

But lets suppose I just did

Lets suppose that I just attempted to invade Lunga on 9/1/42, and lets suppose that the invasion was going pretty well with most of my troops ashore. Then lets just suppose that KB shows up and the most lop sided battle in history takes place where the entire undetected KB launched every god damn plane and then some from 5 hexes away. Then lets suppose that the 80 or so zero escort blew my pitiful wildcats out of the sky and then I had to watch helplessly while 200 or more kates and vals rained bombs down of my pitiful carriers and let just imagine that in spite of my fast BB, plenty of CAs and CLAAs that I only manged to shoot down about 30 of the attacking bombers. And let just hypothisize that the IJN was pretty much able to duplicate that feat in the PM attack, where I then had no CAP and could only cry like a little girl as my precious babies took bomb after bomb and were turned into floating charnel houses.

Did I forget to mention that none of my planes managed to fly an offensive mission and KB in all its glory lies two hexes off of Lunga with nary a scratch? Well, lets just supposed that happened too.

So lets just visualize the resulting mayhem that will rain down upon my exposed transports and AKs who devoid of air protection will be caught next turn and beat on like a 10 dollar whore-resulting in the stranding and eventual elimination of my 1st marine division and all of the various support units that I have stuck on Lunga with nothing at all to eat...OMG! I SIMPLY WANT TO KILL MYSELF!!![:@] [:@] [:@]

Well, I am not saying that this actually happened, but for the purpose of intellectual discorse, lets just assume that it did.

I know that these supposedly lost carriers will get replaced eventually. How long will that take?

I think I need to go lie down for a while.

Don't give up... you still have 99.99% chance of winning in 1944/1945 (if you don't abort earlier and/or end on points - BTW I never count points BTW)... [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Naskra]

it's fortunate that such things could never really happen.

[Canoerebel]

If it's against the AI, you just go back in time a few days and maninpulate things so that you get a different result.
 
If it's PBEM, you'll be amazed at how much the Allies can accomplish under adverse circumstances - you know, necessity is the mother of invention and all that.  You'll figure out new ways to bring the war to your opponent.

[herwin]

Ahistorical. All you had to do was keep your carriers 200 nm south of Lunga, and there was no way the KB could have gotten the drop on you. (See Fleet Tactics: Theory and Practice by Hughes to see why.) Don't worry--you won't be seeing those lovely new carriers. King will have your gonies first. I doubt Nimitz will be able to do for you what he was able to do for Fletcher.

Oh, sorry, this is a game, not reality...

[RUPD3658]

550 days for CVs to respawn.

I will have to look for you in the Opponants Wanted section[:D]