heartache

[Richrd]

After years, even decades, of research and the accumulation of piles and piles of sources, I had begun at last to modify the Soviet OOB in FITE 5.0. I was going all out for the best historical accuracy I could, play balance be damned. I was so proud of the way it was turning out. I saved often. Two weeks into it I opened the editor and accidentally saved the new, unmodified scenario in place of FITE 5.0. Everything was gone. I can't bear to just start over. Every so often, however, I had opened the in progress scenario and played a few turns to check the units and how they interacted. Is there any way to get that auto saved game, and it's OOB, back into the editor?? Any advice?

[Telumar]

Argh.. i'm with you...

If you have the save files..or the latest save file from your test game there could be a way.. In TOAW:COW it was possible to rename a .sal file to .sce and load it into the editor. This however may screw up events, but you would have the OOB. In TOAW III i think (i am not sure) this may not be possible due to cheat prevention.

B U T: With the next patch it will be possible to export an OOB from a running game.

[L`zard]

If your running XP, you might find the files in a file in the 'admin' folder, especially if your running 'system restore'. Look for backup files....

Worth a look, eh? Try the root files for each harddrive as well.....

[ralphtricky]

Richrd,
Send it to me, ralphtrickey (at) hotmail (dot) com.

I'll either load it into the editor and resave it, or I'll export the map, events and OOB, and reload them into a new scenario.

You will still have to review everything, and maybe move the units back, and it may be be missing some stuff, but it should be a leg up.

Ralph

[Richrd]

Ralph, thank you so much for the offer, but when I opened the auto saved game to inspect it, it was more like the original than my modified one. I'm not sure whats going on. I'm just crushed. For a while I did have two saves, but it got to be such a hassle keeping both up to date I deleted one. I had the early destroyer regts and brigades (Dec 41) with truly weird makeups, right down to ' X Squads with big sticks'. Now I can't find the source. OOB research is my hobby and my compulsion, so I will certainly begin again, but it takes so long just to delete all the units. If you are willing to help me, there is one thing I desperately need. I read the instructions for the database editor carefully as well as threads on the forum regarding it. I fear I will be unable to do it. I need a database with 5 or 6 early t-34s with identical values, 5 or 6 late ones. I need 4 or 5 of the more common AT guns. I need a few of the earlier 76mm guns separate from a few of the zis-3's. Things like 45 ATa, 45 ATb, 45 ATc, etc, etc. All this to insure that I can fit into the 2000 unit limits, while still accurately representing the evolution of the Red Army. FITE is the only scenario I'm interested in so it's the only database I need. Any advice? Right now I'm using similar units with notes on paper. With a workable database I think I can get it done in a year, but it will be worth it, both as a game and a resource I hope. Thanks all.

[Richrd]

For what it's worth, the database I need is a big deal to me. I would be willing to pay someone to get that DB on my game, and on disk. (Serial number and whatever else I need to make it permanent on this and susequent computers.)

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Ralph, thank you so much for the offer, but when I opened the auto saved game to inspect it, it was more like the original than my modified one. I'm not sure whats going on. I'm just crushed. For a while I did have two saves, but it got to be such a hassle keeping both up to date I deleted one. I had the early destroyer regts and brigades (Dec 41) with truly weird makeups, right down to ' X Squads with big sticks'. Now I can't find the source. OOB research is my hobby and my compulsion, so I will certainly begin again, but it takes so long just to delete all the units. If you are willing to help me, there is one thing I desperately need. I read the instructions for the database editor carefully as well as threads on the forum regarding it. I fear I will be unable to do it. I need a database with 5 or 6 early t-34s with identical values, 5 or 6 late ones. I need 4 or 5 of the more common AT guns. I need a few of the earlier 76mm guns separate from a few of the zis-3's. Things like 45 ATa, 45 ATb, 45 ATc, etc, etc. All this to insure that I can fit into the 2000 unit limits, while still accurately representing the evolution of the Red Army. FITE is the only scenario I'm interested in so it's the only database I need. Any advice? Right now I'm using similar units with notes on paper. With a workable database I think I can get it done in a year, but it will be worth it, both as a game and a resource I hope. Thanks all.

First try opening the explorer window, and showing the folders, and finding the 'recycle bin' anything you delete is placed in there for a while before really going away, so you may still have some .sals there.

You can send anything you find to me, and I'll convert them to .sce files. I know what it's like to lose something like that. I now make frequent backups to DVD.

Have you seen this thread (Page 12) about ODD? Is that what you're talking about?

Good Luck,
Ralph

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Richrd
OOB research is my hobby and my compulsion, so I will certainly begin again, but it takes so long just to delete all the units.

Start from scratch.

[sPzAbt653]

I would still send the .sal files to Ralph, he is quite extraordinary, don't you know.

I'm not sure if everone else would agree, but I got a thumbdrive so when I get done modifying, I triple check everything, then save it to the thumb so it is excluded from Windows'ness and my humanity. This has saved me a few times, and also gives me peace in my heart. [:)]

I can help you with the bio-ed if you like. I'm no expert but Iv'e been working with it enough that I can make the changes I need. And if you are not changing values and flags, it's fairly easy. You just need to decide how to arrange things so you know where they are.

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Richrd
OOB research is my hobby and my compulsion, so I will certainly begin again, but it takes so long just to delete all the units.

Start from scratch.

You can export the maps and events, so that might not be a bad idea. I'd wait unil after 3.2 is out if you're going to do that though. I don't remember any patches for those, but...

Ralph

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Richrd

After years, even decades, of research and the accumulation of piles and piles of sources, I had begun at last to modify the Soviet OOB in FITE 5.0. I was going all out for the best historical accuracy I could, play balance be damned. I was so proud of the way it was turning out. I saved often. Two weeks into it I opened the editor and accidentally saved the new, unmodified scenario in place of FITE 5.0. Everything was gone. I can't bear to just start over. Every so often, however, I had opened the in progress scenario and played a few turns to check the units and how they interacted. Is there any way to get that auto saved game, and it's OOB, back into the editor?? Any advice?

What you think it's the biggest problem with FiTE OOB?

I had discussion with designers before, I think that they mostly consulted well this is reply of Soren:

"BTW the data on the soviet oob is taken from the mother load it self, encyclopaedia of the great patriotic war,( Soviet millitarys own books from that time) that is ofcause the closest to the truth as one can get. and C. Sharps books on oob, don’t belive all that Glantz writes;D"
Some divisions are on the map and that's confusing because they put the there before they were sent to front so you cannot know exactly when this or that divsion finished forming. They put some divisions with lower supply and readiness to simulate this - ie. you can send them to the front before but with lower supply for example.

Soviet OOB is often very different by various sources (as many others), that just make confusion bigger.


Mario

[Richrd]

I give a ton of credit to the designers for just making the scenario. What an achievement! But there are a few problems that, I guess, would only affect the purists. The AT brigades and regiments, the SU regiments, tank brigades. Which rifle division was fitted out with western weapons before the war began? I use primary sources or material once removed, with enough overlap to reach a consensus. The units and fractions sent west. The howitzer Regts stripped out from far eastern front to conform to the december shtat. I really, really want to play this scenario, but if I look too closely at the OOB, I just can't. Anal. Thats me. I'd be happy to share the in-progress work with any one who's interested. Especially if they can contradict me.

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Richrd

I give a ton of credit to the designers for just making the scenario. What an achievement! But there are a few problems that, I guess, would only affect the purists. The AT brigades and regiments, the SU regiments, tank brigades. Which rifle division was fitted out with western weapons before the war began? I use primary sources or material once removed, with enough overlap to reach a consensus. The units and fractions sent west. The howitzer Regts stripped out from far eastern front to conform to the december shtat. I really, really want to play this scenario, but if I look too closely at the OOB, I just can't. Anal. Thats me. I'd be happy to share the in-progress work with any one who's interested. Especially if they can contradict me.

Thanks... Esp. Russian armored brigades are problem in the scenario as in ver. 4.1 they had really many coming I think on turn 73. They changed it a bit in 5.0.
I bought some books but not any of them had Russian OOB like Stumbling Collosus, Colossus Reborn etc LOL.
Maybe I will get some books on their OOB but they are hard to find.


Mario

[Richrd]

Start from scratch it is. Is there any way to depopulate the force list without having to click delete for each and every unit?

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Start from scratch it is. Is there any way to depopulate the force list without having to click delete for each and every unit?

Jamiam or GD will know this [:)]

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Start from scratch it is. Is there any way to depopulate the force list without having to click delete for each and every unit?

No. Only unit or formation wise. But you can extract the map of FitE (save map as..), select new scenario and open the previously saved FitE map.

[SMK-at-work]

Charles Sharps series of Russian OOB books from Nafziger are fairly awesome - they list every brigade or large unit ever raised, where an when, and what hapened to it, including transitions to guards, etc.  Craig Crofoot's series of organisational OOB's appear to compliment them by providing "complete orders of  battle  for  the field armies of the Soviet Union"
 
Neither of these systematically give TOE's for eth formations - although Sharp does sometimes give that info - eg he notes the strength of a couple of hte "Siberian" Rifle Divisions bought west in 1941, and often gives a time frame for divisions changing between various organisations/TOE's.
 
See http://home.fuse.net/nafziger/WW2_ARMY.HTM for both

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Telumar

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Start from scratch it is. Is there any way to depopulate the force list without having to click delete for each and every unit?

No. Only unit or formation wise. But you can extract the map of FitE (save map as..), select new scenario and open the previously saved FitE map.

As long as you're not concerned with saving any existing event structure, this is your best bet.

[Telumar]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Telumar

ORIGINAL: Richrd

Start from scratch it is. Is there any way to depopulate the force list without having to click delete for each and every unit?

No. Only unit or formation wise. But you can extract the map of FitE (save map as..), select new scenario and open the previously saved FitE map.

As long as you're not concerned with saving any existing event structure, this is your best bet.

Events can be saved separately and loaded seperately, too.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Telumar

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: Telumar




No. Only unit or formation wise. But you can extract the map of FitE (save map as..), select new scenario and open the previously saved FitE map.

As long as you're not concerned with saving any existing event structure, this is your best bet.

Events can be saved separately and loaded seperately, too.

True. However, if he's going to tear up the OOB, and there are withdrawal events or OOB related events, then it's probably best to throw out most of it anyhow, and start from scratch.