End Game Results?

[slybelle]

Can anybody post a screenshot or describe what kind of results are displayed at the end of the game? Does it show casualty counts? Objective Results, etc.

Also, is the end of the game based on a fix time? Or is it random and only based on meeting/not meeting objectives? I'm really hoping not fixed.

Strongly considering this game....just about to push the button.

[HansBolter]

I'm at work right now and don't have access to any screenshots of endgame results, but you get a pop up window that gives all the data you are asking about. Casulaties are given for men, AFVs and guns for both sides with a breakdown listing of how many formations were "destroyed" by each side and whether or not they were destroyed by fire power or surrendered.

Most scenarios are based on time limits ranging from a couple of days to as long as 11 days. Many scenarios with "exit" objectives (meaning you have to exit a certain size force with a certain breakdon of aamor, infantry and artilery) have "auto end" functions that occur as soon at the exit objective is met.

After playing HTTR and COTA I became so enthralled with this game system I became a beta tester for the next release Battles from the Bulge. For a good advance look at BFTB head on over to the forum for it on this site and peruse my AAR of the Race for the Meuse scenario. You can't go wrong purchasing this game.

p.s. A detailed look through the threads here may turn up a screenshot of endgame results.

I found a post here with an SC of the end game pop up:

tm.asp?m=1272615

as Eddy mentioned you can also review the map at endgame which allows you to see all the enemy units that may have been out of LOS with the fog of war aspect.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: slybelle
Can anybody post a screenshot or describe what kind of results are displayed at the end of the game? Does it show casualty counts? Objective Results, etc.

Casualty count men, afv, non-afv. As you can review the final map situation it's pretty clear where you got (or lost) points.

ORIGINAL: slybelle
Also, is the end of the game based on a fix time? Or is it random and only based on meeting/not meeting objectives? I'm really hoping not fixed.

Fixed time, except for those scenarios where if you meet a particular exit objective criterium the scenario ends right then and there. My problem with fixed time scenarios (in other games) is that they are just a devise to make you charge forward so you wouldn't notice the crappy AI you're up against. Not so in COTA - there's no 1 correct way to go about a scenario and usually there's enough time to try-out alternative approaches. As there's a high correlation between "makes sense in the real military world" and "works in COTA" you'll soon start to approach scenarios exactly like your historical counterpart did. Look at the map, the objectives, try to gauge where the enemy will be trying to block you, find alternative approaches, feint, use your fastests units to pierce his line, cut him off etc. Conversely, using bad tactics for the period wil get you in a mess real quick.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[simovitch]

After this screen the game allows you to review the troops on both sides with FOW lifted. You can see also that the game ended more than a day early because the Allies involuntarily surrendered when they lost all their troops in battle. You can also offer/accept surrenders during the game.

[slybelle]

Thanks everybody....that makes it much clearer on these topics.

[Helpless]

Fixed time, except for those scenarios where if you meet a particular exit objective criterium the scenario ends right then and there

Scenario also ends when one side offers surrender and other side accepts it... [8D] [:)]

Edit: oops, simovitch already mentioned it..

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Fixed time, except for those scenarios where if you meet a particular exit objective criterium the scenario ends right then and there

Scenario also ends when one side offers surrender and other side accepts it... [8D] [:)]

Yeah, but with my kamikaze playing style that never happens to me [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[slybelle]

Ok, hopefully one last question.  I took a look at other's posts and even tried the original demo (red devil, yes I know it is outdated, but wanted to see how it generally worked).  What I haven't seen, is how do you know how battles are going?  meaning, you see units engaged, what information is given to you to know how well a unit is doing in the heat of a battle?  Is it easy to know a unit's status or does it take a lot of reading of unit stats and such?  I just want to make sure I would have a decent understanding of the situation, especially since it is real-time.

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Ok, hopefully one last question. I took a look at other's posts and even tried the original demo (red devil, yes I know it is outdated, but wanted to see how it generally worked). What I haven't seen, is how do you know how battles are going? meaning, you see units engaged, what information is given to you to know how well a unit is doing in the heat of a battle? Is it easy to know a unit's status or does it take a lot of reading of unit stats and such? I just want to make sure I would have a decent understanding of the situation, especially since it is real-time.

It is quite easy and fast to get info on each unit (is it engaging, firing aarm or aper, marching, routing or retreating). However in the beginning it was not that easy to get a big picture out of that, especially during large battles. But once you understand what to expect from every formation you set, things become very clear in the total mess called war.. [;)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: slybelle

Ok, hopefully one last question.  I took a look at other's posts and even tried the original demo (red devil, yes I know it is outdated, but wanted to see how it generally worked).  What I haven't seen, is how do you know how battles are going?  meaning, you see units engaged, what information is given to you to know how well a unit is doing in the heat of a battle?  Is it easy to know a unit's status or does it take a lot of reading of unit stats and such?  I just want to make sure I would have a decent understanding of the situation, especially since it is real-time.

The game system does take a little getting used to in comparison to most traditional turn-based games. There is no "combat result" given after each combat is resolved because no comabt is "resolved" in the traditional manner. Since combat is ongoing, it is incumbent on the player to "look in" on the units involved to see how they are doing. There are several forms of feedback available to the player.

The unit icons themselves will provide information. With the "combat strength" view chosen you get a combat value number in the upper right corner of the counter. The background of that number changes color in response to what is happening to the unit. When the "task" view is chosen a small coloered square appears in the bottom right corner to give the same info. If the square id blue your units are firing in the enemy, when it is yellow your units is taking fire from the enemy, when it is red you are retreating/routing.

Selecting the unit with the General Info tab chosen in the side bar, you get a bunch of bar graphs showing unit stats. The top bar is number of men. You can very quickly seem how many men each unit is losing/has lost by checking in on them this way.

Any real time game requires the player to devise thier own "turn sequence" so to speak. What I do is typically review the units about to become involved in any given action. I look at each battalion HQ to see how many men that formation has or how many tanks if it is an armor unit. I do this for each unit. As the battle progresses I routinely look in on each unit and monitor it's losses against it's progress. It can be quite disconcerting to see your infantry companies attacking across open terrain suddenly have an artillery barrage come down on them. You can almost literally see your toop strength melting away before your eyes as your poot hapless companies route away from the fight.

Over time you get a feel for the strengths of your units even after multiple fights. By the fourth day you may look at a battalion and remember that it is only around 67% strength after that horrenduos fight you threw them into the day before.

Obviously the level of immersiveness I advocate requires slowing the game down to the slowest speed when there is action taking place in multiple locations at once. I also pause quite frenquetly soley for the purpose of investigating what is happening. There is a wealth of detail and feedback available to the player and the beauty is that each player can decide how much to delve into it and how much to just sit back and watch it go down. I typically run at fastest speed during night when little is happening, middle speed most of the daylight hours and slow speed when the action gets hot and heavy in multiple locations.

[slybelle]

Thanks for the excellent recap...so hard to get an appreciation without having a demo (or using a demo that is many years old), but certainly sounds like a lot of good things.
 
This just happens to be a part of the war in where I'm not familar so that is contributing to my purchase hesitation.
 
Decisions.....decisions.....decisions.....

[HansBolter]

Have you looked at the 5-minute guide that is located as a sticky at the top of this forum?

It is a short movie giving an example of how play orders are implemented and play progresses?

[slybelle]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Have you looked at the 5-minute guide that is located as a sticky at the top of this forum?

It is a short movie giving an example of how play orders are implemented and play progresses?

Yes, I've taken a look at just about everything I could find in this forum, just not the same as actually having the game in my hands since evrybody has their own opinions. Everybody here seems to really like it which is why it is making it so hard not to pull the trigger.

I guess I would have just preferred something more like the Bulge, but doesn't seem like there is any specific dates for release.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: slybelle

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Have you looked at the 5-minute guide that is located as a sticky at the top of this forum?

It is a short movie giving an example of how play orders are implemented and play progresses?

Yes, I've taken a look at just about everything I could find in this forum, just not the same as actually having the game in my hands since evrybody has their own opinions. Everybody here seems to really like it which is why it is making it so hard not to pull the trigger.

I guess I would have just preferred something more like the Bulge, but doesn't seem like there is any specific dates for release.

Unfortunately, the Bulge game could take a while. Panther Game's owner and lead programmer, Arjuna, has taken on full time work ofr his country's defense department. Luckily, for me, I became a beta tester so I have had a chance to play most of teh Bulge scenarios, albiet, with all their bugs.

I highly recommend not waiting of Bulge. CoTA has many fine scenarios that are a lot of fun to play. Spartans at the Pass is a great one that no one, to my knowledge, has managed to get a decisive victory with the Germans (there is a thread here somewhere that I started about that one). All of the paradrop scenarios on Crete and the hypothetical one on Malta are great fun. Even trying your hand at breaking through the Greek line in the mountains with the Italian army can be an entertaining challenge.

[MarkShot]

Well, if you have lots of time, my Mini-Guides take you through a single HTTR and COTA scenario in great detail. You pretty much play the game together with me. Additionally, reading beyond the AARs in the Mini-Guides, you will also get a good sense of what playing the game is all about.

Short of the old RDOA demo, I don't think anything will provide you with a more detailed presentation of the game play.

Situational awareness is really good in the game. It is quite easy using the counters and info boxes (with the toggle keys) to take in the entire battle at a glance. This game is said to be real time, but compared to any other similarly called game, you will not spend much time trying to click and order action to beat the clock. The pace of this engine is slow and methodical with the emphasis on analysis, observation, and planning. Frantic knee jerk actions is not what this series is about.

Take care.

[Helpless]

Stop thinking - just buy it.

COTA is a great unique game because it ranges from

...slow and methodical with the emphasis on analysis, observation, and planning...

to

Frantic knee jerk actions ..

a.k.a

...kamikaze playing style..

[:D]

[Deathtreader]

Hey slybelle,

Don't fret over the game's being in Greece, Crete, and Malta. Not my favourite either, but the gaming is simply superb!! Lots of scenarios provide ample scope for maneuver warfare as well as set-piece slugfests and everything in between. I'd be very, very surprised if you were disappointed in your purchase. This is simply one of the best wargaming experiences around.
Apparently the next patch will have something from N. Africa as well.......hopefully more than one but what the hay. [&o]

Rob. [:)]

[slybelle]

Well guys, I think I will be taken the plunge.  I'm going to be busy this week, but hope to make the purchase and have time to play within the next week or so.  Hopefully, this will coincide well with the release of the final patch.
 
Thanks again for the great feedback!