Possible Patch Item - Air Attacks

[Kipper]

Air attacks alone should not be allowed to wipe out a surrouded stack of 5+ units.

[Vic]

please report actual ammount of troops and aircraft involved with this sort of issues.

[seille]

If there are enough and the right planes attacking why not ?
Happened several times in ww2 that armored attacks has been stopped by attacking ground attack planes.
Or that whole divisions did not longer exist after a carpet of bombs.
 
The number of units doesn´t matter here btw. More their entrenchment, type and so on.
Flak there, interceptors there ? If not the planes will do their job for 10 combat rounds.
 

[leastonh1]

Seille's right. Historically, land units faced with air superiority and a lack of countermeasures on the ground were in serious trouble. Don't forget, during WWII they used high explosives and incendiary bombs, with a possibility for tactical and strategic bombing raids. So, a high concentration of land units in a relatively small area coupled with accurate bombing due perhaps to good intel and you have a recipe for disaster on the ground.
 
Regards,
Jim

[Kipper]

5-6 units wiped out by air attack. Next time I do it I will send the save file. There was very little left in the units so I don't think it was a combat formulae issue, but do you want air to be able to eliminate units entirely. Yes it happened to some extent temporarily (Operation Cobra, for example) but very exploitable game wise. A design consideration rather than a combat resolution bug.

[Kipper]

To clarify - I didn't see your post when I made my post above - I question division+ sized units being *wiped out and removed from the game* in a single air attack without extremely mitigating circumstances - like US/Uk throwing the bulk of its strategic/tactical assets to ground support at Cobra. And even that did not remove Panzer Lehr from the Order of Battle. Ground should deal the decisive blow against ground in a game at this level of abstrction and scale.

[seille]

Why this should be impossible ? Especially when you had nearly "empty" units there.
They probbaly couldn´t hide and couldn´t retreat.
They do not have any combat value and are easy targets. You want each unit to survive these attacks with let´s say 1-2 infantry ?
But what do you want to do with ? Except making one unit of the survivors and disband the other units ?
These units have no combat value. The only value they still have is the 1 PP you get back when you disband....

[Kipper]

Ahistorical and exploitable. Finishing off surrounded enemy ground units at operational level should at least take some movement points from local friendly ground units unless surrounded group surrenders. Making one unit of the survivors and disbanding the other units is a good idea. 

[freeboy]

might need to be toned down to get retreat results instead of casualty, but adding an aa gun always helps

[Erik Rutins]

Part of this comes down to the level of what constitutes a cohesive fighting force at an operational scale. If it was already surrounded and out of supply without any AA defenses and then subject to huge air attacks, it might not require more than a land unit moving in to take control of the hex, in effect.

[Kipper]

Erik - that would work.