Sub stuff

[SMK-at-work]

I've noticed that the British sub in the baltic seems to be a lot more effective in 1.2 (and recent betas of it) than previously - I've had it hit 2 of my German transports in the 1st year of the war in my latest game....more than in every other game in my 1st year of playing GoA!![:D]

German ASW has not accomplished anything other than waste resources (3-5 DD's on ASW in the Baltic every turn, 0 hits)

On the flip side....sub damage to capital ships is still under-modelled at 2 points per hit - it should be lot more - with possibly a small chance of actually sinking it outright.

[hjaco]

Yeah i concur with that observation. I assume you build a couple osf British SUBS right from the beginning to stop German trade in the Baltic ?

In my experience trying to trade with Germany in the Atlantic is a futile event with 1.2. What are your experience with this ?

[SMK-at-work]

The Brits get 1 sub and that's all that's been doing the damage to me.  I did once build an extra one in a game but that was with a previous version and the 2 of them achieved nothing.
 
I've occasionally gotten trade from German transports in the atlantic, but only intermittantly, and the transports are soon sunk.
 
German merchant ships did continue to operate until the end of the war - eg when Brazil declared war in 1917 they seized about 40 German ships that were in their ports. 
 
Given the small number of German ships at the start of hte game they get massacred fairly quickly if they try to trade and I suspect a better way of doing the blockade war would be for the allies to affect the number of points the German transports can supply rather than sinking them.....

[hjaco]

Originally I always started 2 SUBS in turn one with Germany but with 1.1 i switched strategy to build 4 transports instead.

In November 6 transports and HSF with raider order to contest the north Atlantic would ensure 3 turns trade from all 6 transports as both raiders as well as transports were very difficult to find.

Suffice to say that Germanys war production would be maximized virtually without using any resources from OE [:D]

It would seem that with 1.2 transports are being found rather easy when raiding after them and especially when transports try to sail through sea zones already containing enemy ships which would intercept and sink them.

[boogada]

You seem to do this strategy versus me right now. You neglect Serbia (and opening the door to the OE ressources) but focus on the Hochseeflotte instead. So far its working. 

[SMK-at-work]

Yes that's another thing - the raider function seems to be a bit powerful too.....the HSF entirely raiding seems a bit er......wrong....

[hjaco]

Yes - it would seem to bee to easy to survive combat against patrols and still be able to find transports and sink them.

[SMK-at-work]

Just had the German DD's in the Baltic attack the British sub - so it does work...now all they have to do is figure out how to hit it once they see it!!

[Shawkhan]

Raiders by definition, are small forces. The game allows one to send their entire fleet out on raids, which isn't at all historical. A limit on the size of a raiding force would bring this back to some semblance of historicity. I would suggest a single unit as a raider per sea zone would be more appropriate.
In my opinion the land game is pretty close to perfect in GoA. If we could just fix a couple issues in the naval game(U-boats/ASW and raiders), this game would be a sterling example of a highly playable game that also serves as an accurate historical simulation of warfare as it was practiced at the time.

[Joel Rauber]

I want more game play before coming to conclusions. Particularly against human opponents.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: Shawkhan

Raiders by definition, are small forces. The game allows one to send their entire fleet out on raids, which isn't at all historical. A limit on the size of a raiding force would bring this back to some semblance of historicity. I would suggest a single unit as a raider per sea zone would be more appropriate.
In my opinion the land game is pretty close to perfect in GoA. If we could just fix a couple issues in the naval game(U-boats/ASW and raiders), this game would be a sterling example of a highly playable game that also serves as an accurate historical simulation of warfare as it was practiced at the time.

The choice has been made by the designer to use squadrons ships instead of single ships which also makes sense but also forces a somewhat inflexible raiding system.

I would like to implement a limitation on DN and PD to raid more than one sea zone away from their base. Their slow cruising speed and high naval importance would have made it impractical and strategic prohibitive to send those ships on a long range raid.

It makes sense to allow cruisers and battlecruisers to raiding more than one sea zone away from their base as they risk being caught decisively by enemy dreadnoughts.

[FrankHunter]

Due to the lower speed numbers on DNs and PDs I figured they were easily intercepted by patrolling enemy squadrons if those squadrons had CAs of their own on patrol.

[SMK-at-work]

Yes they get intercepted, but they still get to attack transports - which they almost always sink outright. 
 
 PD's and DN's can also take a lot of damage, so even ifthey do fight they sometimes will hang around until the next naval phase and do it all again.

[hjaco]

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

Due to the lower speed numbers on DNs and PDs I figured they were easily intercepted by patrolling enemy squadrons if those squadrons had CAs of their own on patrol.

You also changed naval units "endurance" to sustain a larger amount of damage before being forced to abandon their mission. So whether being intercepted in the North Sea o North Atlantic chances are very good that they can complete their mission.

[FrankHunter]

Right, I changed the rule that a damaged ship automatically returns to port.  I believe its 50% damage now that makes it auto-return.

[SMK-at-work]

did that apply at the end of combat, or at each sea zone for movement?
 
At het moment, for example, the HSF can sortie to the Atlantic.  If it gets intercepted by the Grand Fleet in the Nth Sea then it takes hits, but still goes to the Atlantic and sinks the transports and patroling cruisers.
 
If damage applies at the end of all combat then changing it will stop lightly damaged ships staying out in the Atlantic for a 2nd strategic turn, but won't stop heavily damaged ones from getting there on the 1st turn.
 
Thinking of "real world" issues. IMO capital ships would not sortie to the Atlantic if damaged, so they shuold be forced to return to base if they suffer any damage at all.  Cruisers and smaller ships IMO were not such major assets and represent more ships so they are not a problem with damage - can you do different damage levels for different vessels?

[hjaco]

With regard to "real world" issues of WW1 naval grand strategy thinking it was completely unthinkable to use dreadnoughts in such a raiding role. The power scale between RN & HSF was just too tight to risk such gambles. so each loss could have a devastating and lasting effect in the one or other direction. Neither side dared send their heavies into the North Sea for a very justifiable fear of especially enemy SUBS.

Furthermore DN represented such a huge national investment that it would be a large financial burden to rebuild.

I still think that DN and PD should in no way be allowed to raid more than one sea area away from a friendly base.

[hjaco]

On further note. In WW2 the German pocket Battleships were specifically designed to have a sufficient high cruising speed and range to evade detection and sustained shadowing by cruisers and more importantly to outrun enemy Battleships.

Its another story that carrier and land based aircraft altered the tides once more in favor of RN with the known outcome in BOA.

[SMK-at-work]

I prefer teh simpler solution we suggested a while back - "Raider" is not an option for DN and Pd at all!

[wurger54]

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work

I prefer teh simpler solution we suggested a while back - "Raider" is not an option for DN and Pd at all!

For what its worth, I agree. [:D]