Single player?
Moderator: Vic
Single player?
Hi! I'm considering the purchase but I'd like to know how good the game is in single player? Unfortunately work and other circumstances prevent me to play pbem so I need a strong AI. I've read that the computer player can't handle carriers and strategy transfer? Are there plans to improve those aspects?
RE: Single player?
The AI is very good, plus with fog of war options like hidden map make it ever harder. I've bought the game on day one and so far I've only played single player vs thr AI with random map games!
RE: Single player?
The AI is OK at present. The patch out this week should make it better.
It will never (with current technology) be as wily or creative as a human.
It will never (with current technology) be as wily or creative as a human.
RE: Single player?
I agree...The AI is pretty good, but it is sure to be better with upcoming patch.
I'm playing a random game now against AI++ and I'm making a little headway, but it's a struggle. I think I got it won though.
Sounds like one of the biggest changes in the next patch that will improve AI compition, is how the AI's will make the Human player there primary enemy and other AI's less important to defeat.
I was thinking of suggesting that to Vic, but then I saw he was already planning to do it in the next patch.
If in the Next patch the AI starts handling its naval units better, it will be quit good by the sound of it.
I'm playing a random game now against AI++ and I'm making a little headway, but it's a struggle. I think I got it won though.
Sounds like one of the biggest changes in the next patch that will improve AI compition, is how the AI's will make the Human player there primary enemy and other AI's less important to defeat.
I was thinking of suggesting that to Vic, but then I saw he was already planning to do it in the next patch.
If in the Next patch the AI starts handling its naval units better, it will be quit good by the sound of it.
RE: Single player?
best ai game so far I have seen is the ww1 game?? ok now where is that game ..Guns of August.. very hard as you know so little of what the enemy is doing and each side moves at once wego
"Tanks forward"
RE: Single player?
The AI is quite good.....and I'm someone who really loves to criticize bad AIs.
I've had a game going against the computer for about a month now and its been lots of fun.
I've had a game going against the computer for about a month now and its been lots of fun.
RE: Single player?
Lies! [:D]
The AI is an idiot, but despite this can still offer a good challenge.
Witness my current random game 100x100 with 10 AI opponents, half AI++ and half AI+. I've almost NO air units (3) and NO flak (0) but still doing fine. My nearest opponent had 45+ planes at a forward base but DID not ever attack with them. It let me roll over them without retreating them or trying to defend the airbase. At an earlier point it reinforced a forward city with tons of aircraft in what was sure to be the cities last turn standing.
Then the island AIs are just massing forces but never attacking with more than 3 or 5 units... Though its still been challenging to invade their own island for this reason (Plus they as well have massive planes mostly I guess for defensive air cover).
I could go on and on and on and on.
So the fair assessment is that you must be willing to tolerate current AI stupidity such as this. I know that I can because the game is still quite fun and challenging, if admittedly a bit unrealistic when played this way. I'm actually having some trouble keeping all my borders defended while still gaining ground elsewhere.
I have solid faith that over time the more glaring of these AI problems will be addressed (Strategic Transfers, Flak and Aircraft Usage, Engineers etc.). Most of that has already been at least brought up for patching consideration if not already in the patch coming out soon.
I've never done it but I bet if you turned off fog of war in this game you'd be appalled by what the AIs are doing. So just don't [:D]
I would not call the A.I. groundbreaking or the best ever, but its certainly sufficient at current abilities and, in my opinion, should not dissuade anyone from buying this most exceptional game...
I've played many a PBEM AT game and still find the AI fun and challenging!
The AI is an idiot, but despite this can still offer a good challenge.
Witness my current random game 100x100 with 10 AI opponents, half AI++ and half AI+. I've almost NO air units (3) and NO flak (0) but still doing fine. My nearest opponent had 45+ planes at a forward base but DID not ever attack with them. It let me roll over them without retreating them or trying to defend the airbase. At an earlier point it reinforced a forward city with tons of aircraft in what was sure to be the cities last turn standing.
Then the island AIs are just massing forces but never attacking with more than 3 or 5 units... Though its still been challenging to invade their own island for this reason (Plus they as well have massive planes mostly I guess for defensive air cover).
I could go on and on and on and on.
So the fair assessment is that you must be willing to tolerate current AI stupidity such as this. I know that I can because the game is still quite fun and challenging, if admittedly a bit unrealistic when played this way. I'm actually having some trouble keeping all my borders defended while still gaining ground elsewhere.
I have solid faith that over time the more glaring of these AI problems will be addressed (Strategic Transfers, Flak and Aircraft Usage, Engineers etc.). Most of that has already been at least brought up for patching consideration if not already in the patch coming out soon.
I've never done it but I bet if you turned off fog of war in this game you'd be appalled by what the AIs are doing. So just don't [:D]
I would not call the A.I. groundbreaking or the best ever, but its certainly sufficient at current abilities and, in my opinion, should not dissuade anyone from buying this most exceptional game...
I've played many a PBEM AT game and still find the AI fun and challenging!
RE: Single player?
This is a question that is asked and debated of very game, and particularly turn based wargame that is produced. I have zero knowledge of computer programing and game design so I do not know why otherwise excellent games AI will do things like let large air forces sit doing nothing turn after turn (this was one of the worst features of Alpha Centauri, one of the finest, most imaginative games ever produced and still, years later, one of the very best). It would seem to an ignorant one like me that it should be easy to program the ai to attack something with its aircraft turn that there is a target within range. But maybe not, perhaps it is not that easy.
Problem is we want a Hal computer that can think as well as a human and the only complex game in which a computer has ever beaten a very good player is chess, which is very limited compared to a game like AT; in terms of number of pieces, number of 'squares' ect.
I often, not always, but frequently, do something that I know most players won't do because they feel it loses all the surprise factor of playing another intelligence; I play all the sides. This was the way I played board wargames for decades so I don't find it peculiar, though I understand that younger players who have entered gaming after computers were already going would find it so. But with fog of war there is still an element of chance because, especially with a large war, you just can't remember where all the damned units are from turn to turn. I've often had an attack or defense miscarry because I forgot that there was an enemy unit just out of recon range.
So put up with the ai limitations and try playing solo now and again. The ai in AT is quite good though, compared to most games.
Problem is we want a Hal computer that can think as well as a human and the only complex game in which a computer has ever beaten a very good player is chess, which is very limited compared to a game like AT; in terms of number of pieces, number of 'squares' ect.
I often, not always, but frequently, do something that I know most players won't do because they feel it loses all the surprise factor of playing another intelligence; I play all the sides. This was the way I played board wargames for decades so I don't find it peculiar, though I understand that younger players who have entered gaming after computers were already going would find it so. But with fog of war there is still an element of chance because, especially with a large war, you just can't remember where all the damned units are from turn to turn. I've often had an attack or defense miscarry because I forgot that there was an enemy unit just out of recon range.
So put up with the ai limitations and try playing solo now and again. The ai in AT is quite good though, compared to most games.
RE: Single player?
ORIGINAL: miral
This is a question that is asked and debated of very game, and particularly turn based wargame that is produced. I have zero knowledge of computer programing and game design so I do not know why otherwise excellent games AI will do things like let large air forces sit doing nothing turn after turn (this was one of the worst features of Alpha Centauri, one of the finest, most imaginative games ever produced and still, years later, one of the very best). It would seem to an ignorant one like me that it should be easy to program the ai to attack something with its aircraft turn that there is a target within range. But maybe not, perhaps it is not that easy.
Problem is we want a Hal computer that can think as well as a human and the only complex game in which a computer has ever beaten a very good player is chess, which is very limited compared to a game like AT; in terms of number of pieces, number of 'squares' ect.
I often, not always, but frequently, do something that I know most players won't do because they feel it loses all the surprise factor of playing another intelligence; I play all the sides. This was the way I played board wargames for decades so I don't find it peculiar, though I understand that younger players who have entered gaming after computers were already going would find it so. But with fog of war there is still an element of chance because, especially with a large war, you just can't remember where all the damned units are from turn to turn. I've often had an attack or defense miscarry because I forgot that there was an enemy unit just out of recon range.
So put up with the ai limitations and try playing solo now and again. The ai in AT is quite good though, compared to most games.
I taught myself to play chess that way, and when I got into wargames, I did the same with the early board wargames, played against myself. I haven't done it as much since computer games came into being. Though, i'm not sure why. Perhaps because I'm a bad enough strategist that it doesnt take much of an AI to beat me. <g>.
Rick
RE: Single player?
Rick, I agree. I find that an AI, particularly if given an advantage, usually gives me a good fight and frequently beats me. I think we fall into the strange catagory of those who play primarily for fun as opposed to those who need to win. If we spent a deal of time studying the details of how to beat the ai we could probably do it, but I don't care. I don't want to know what specific weakness always allows you to crush enemy infantry defending in light forest or whatever. Sometimes these things come to me in games, often not. Doesn't matter, fun does.
And something I've never understood. Many players who complain about poor AI play also don't want the Ai's brain disadvantage made up for by giving it a large increase in production power. Well, why not? I don't underestand why that doesn't create a good challenge for these players. After all, isn't this about what happened in WWII? The Germans were the best army in the world, operationally and tactically, but had to deal with a huge disparity of force that could only have been countered by good strategy. Which they never did. Same thing in WWI. But, as the historian H.P. Willmott so well put it, 'the Germans know how to win battles, but not wars.' If you find the AI weak, give it a huge advantage in forces so you have to come up with a good strategy to beat it.
And something I've never understood. Many players who complain about poor AI play also don't want the Ai's brain disadvantage made up for by giving it a large increase in production power. Well, why not? I don't underestand why that doesn't create a good challenge for these players. After all, isn't this about what happened in WWII? The Germans were the best army in the world, operationally and tactically, but had to deal with a huge disparity of force that could only have been countered by good strategy. Which they never did. Same thing in WWI. But, as the historian H.P. Willmott so well put it, 'the Germans know how to win battles, but not wars.' If you find the AI weak, give it a huge advantage in forces so you have to come up with a good strategy to beat it.
RE: Single player?
ORIGINAL: miral
This is a question that is asked and debated of very game, and particularly turn based wargame that is produced. I have zero knowledge of computer programing and game design so I do not know why otherwise excellent games AI will do things like let large air forces sit doing nothing turn after turn (this was one of the worst features of Alpha Centauri, one of the finest, most imaginative games ever produced and still, years later, one of the very best). It would seem to an ignorant one like me that it should be easy to program the ai to attack something with its aircraft turn that there is a target within range. But maybe not, perhaps it is not that easy.
I know enough about those things to know that it is relatively easy so to speak. Mostly it just depends on how editable you made your code. Since the AI as a whole is sound its just a matter of tweaking a few existing elements (planes, transports) and adding a few new ones (flak).
I just captured a coastal city with 46 transports!!! In all my games I've never seen the AI attack with more than what a dozen maybe every 5 turns or so, or 3 or 4 every couple turns? It would seem the AI is just stuck in some sort of strategic loop by which it thinks producing transports was the best course when in fact it should have been producing SMG or anything else to defend the city (It was defended by 3 infantry and a couple trucks). I think a similar problem happens with aircraft as I've never ever had to make 45+ aircraft for a single force but see this often in AI play.
But again, I point these out only as a fair assessment. I can live with all other AI imcompatencies if airunits, flak, and naval attacks are dealt with (and Im sure they will be). Then mostly it will seem a very realistic opponent too me. These AI mistakes are made up for by its extra production.. so if you blow away 45 fighters its not that big a blow to the AI as they had double or triple production anyway.
Even that said I have TREMENDOUS fun playing the AI in the current game and am definitely challenged by the AI++. If the AI were never patched further Id still love the game and enjoy playing it.
RE: Single player?
I too am hooked, in spite of any AI flaws, probably because AT is so much like the board wargames I learned to play on about 500 years ago. And the AI has its moments. I find it is quite good at cutting my supply lines. And the game just looks good. No, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the super graphics games, but these just irritate me anyway. What I mean is it is good to look at, the aesthetics, colors, photos ect. are clean and attractive. But its most wonderful feature is the ability to generate maps. I love games based on WWII, but how many times can you play the same strategic level game on a map of Europe. The geography pushes them towards a certain sameness. I only hope the designer of AT puts out additions of other historical time periods.
RE: Single player?
I uploaded the new patch and played a quick, small, i.e., 10x10, random scenario. One thing I noticed was that as soon as I started using dive bombers the AI quickly countered with flak, something I had not noticed before. The AI also seemed to do a better job of countering my mass armored formations by putting more tanks in its infantry formations. The notes with the patch say the transport problem should be fixed, though I can't vouch for that. I also noticed the AI divebombing some of my formations. I won but in that one scenario, played with vanilla AI, the AI seemed to do a better job, but one small scenario certainly doesn't prove anything.
I noted in another thread that I created a 1900-era mastertemplate for random scenarios, eliminating all vehicles and airplanes and a couple of other things and doing away with research. Playing a couple of random scenarios like that I have found rather challenging. Maybe if you give the AI less to "think" about it might do a better job. But I could be wrong about that, too.
I noted in another thread that I created a 1900-era mastertemplate for random scenarios, eliminating all vehicles and airplanes and a couple of other things and doing away with research. Playing a couple of random scenarios like that I have found rather challenging. Maybe if you give the AI less to "think" about it might do a better job. But I could be wrong about that, too.
RE: Single player?
Sounds good JW. I'm anxous to check it out.
Has the AI launched any fighter attacks against your air units at base?
This was something I recommened to Vic in my AAR.
Has the AI launched any fighter attacks against your air units at base?
This was something I recommened to Vic in my AAR.
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Delyn Locksmiths
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RE: Single player?
I was struggling to get my eastron bloodbath to be much challange against the AI, now with the new patch, and fog of war, even with no bonus for the AI it's a monster struggle! I crush one of the other states only to get the other two attack me as I'm about to apply the coup de grace.
RE: Single player?
ORIGINAL: Delyn Locksmiths
I was struggling to get my eastron bloodbath to be much challange against the AI, now with the new patch, and fog of war, even with no bonus for the AI it's a monster struggle! I crush one of the other states only to get the other two attack me as I'm about to apply the coup de grace.
Thats very good to hear
Rick
RE: Single player?
I agree. I'd have to say this is the most pitiful AI I have ever played against. (And I've been playing computer games for 15+ years now.) If you buy this, you HAVE to play against a human to have any fun.
Now, I haven't played PBEM yet, but I will not waste another second of my time playing against the AI. The phrase "taking candy from a baby" comes to mind when thinking about the difficulty of playing against the AI.
Examples -
1) The AI routinely attacks large, fortified stacks (400+ power points) with paltry units (<10 power points).
2) When playing as the Germans in the Ardennes scenario, I would blow away the initial defenses. Then, the AI, in its infinite wisdom, pulls back its few solid infantry and armor regiments and counterattacks with, guess what? - ARTILLERY and ENGINEER units!
3) The AI will leave air units at airfields/towns AT the front with no supporting ground units. Can you say "planes captured on the runway"?
I could go on and on, but playing against the AI is just no fun. I've tried doing AI+ and AI++, but all this does is just increase the pointless slaughter. It sort of reminds me of those stories about US forces in Korea simply running out of ammunition when mowing down countless unarmed or poorly armed Chinese in wave attacks - only in this case, NONE of the Chinese make it close enough for hand-to-hand combat (in real life, at least a few of them made it).
I'd say "Don't buy the game if you can't play PBEM" - unless of course, you like the thought of mowing down thousands of pitch fork wielding peasants with machine guns, artillery and air strikes.
Now, I haven't played PBEM yet, but I will not waste another second of my time playing against the AI. The phrase "taking candy from a baby" comes to mind when thinking about the difficulty of playing against the AI.
Examples -
1) The AI routinely attacks large, fortified stacks (400+ power points) with paltry units (<10 power points).
2) When playing as the Germans in the Ardennes scenario, I would blow away the initial defenses. Then, the AI, in its infinite wisdom, pulls back its few solid infantry and armor regiments and counterattacks with, guess what? - ARTILLERY and ENGINEER units!
3) The AI will leave air units at airfields/towns AT the front with no supporting ground units. Can you say "planes captured on the runway"?
I could go on and on, but playing against the AI is just no fun. I've tried doing AI+ and AI++, but all this does is just increase the pointless slaughter. It sort of reminds me of those stories about US forces in Korea simply running out of ammunition when mowing down countless unarmed or poorly armed Chinese in wave attacks - only in this case, NONE of the Chinese make it close enough for hand-to-hand combat (in real life, at least a few of them made it).
I'd say "Don't buy the game if you can't play PBEM" - unless of course, you like the thought of mowing down thousands of pitch fork wielding peasants with machine guns, artillery and air strikes.
RE: Single player?
That doesn't sound like V1.10... Have you upgraded yet?ORIGINAL: Icedawg
I agree. I'd have to say this is the most pitiful AI I have ever played against. (And I've been playing computer games for 15+ years now.) If you buy this, you HAVE to play against a human to have any fun.
Now, I haven't played PBEM yet, but I will not waste another second of my time playing against the AI. The phrase "taking candy from a baby" comes to mind when thinking about the difficulty of playing against the AI.
Examples -
1) The AI routinely attacks large, fortified stacks (400+ power points) with paltry units (<10 power points).
2) When playing as the Germans in the Ardennes scenario, I would blow away the initial defenses. Then, the AI, in its infinite wisdom, pulls back its few solid infantry and armor regiments and counterattacks with, guess what? - ARTILLERY and ENGINEER units!
3) The AI will leave air units at airfields/towns AT the front with no supporting ground units. Can you say "planes captured on the runway"?
I could go on and on, but playing against the AI is just no fun. I've tried doing AI+ and AI++, but all this does is just increase the pointless slaughter. It sort of reminds me of those stories about US forces in Korea simply running out of ammunition when mowing down countless unarmed or poorly armed Chinese in wave attacks - only in this case, NONE of the Chinese make it close enough for hand-to-hand combat (in real life, at least a few of them made it).
I'd say "Don't buy the game if you can't play PBEM" - unless of course, you like the thought of mowing down thousands of pitch fork wielding peasants with machine guns, artillery and air strikes.
RE: Single player?
I bet Icedawg does NOT play 1.10.
Sounds more like 1.02 or older.
In 1.10 the AI is a real challenge.
I did a test with "End of a Union" as EU player against russians and muslim federation both on AI+.
While i easily won in 1.02b i had bigger problems against the AI in 1.10.
The AI attacked better and it started to use AA guns. Test it and you´ll see the difference
when you can´t longer knock out the AI tanks and guns easily by air strikes.
At least you have to pay now for these attacks.
At a time i had my 1.02b game already won i started to get the 1.10i game under control step by step,
but i was still far away from winning !
And i would call myself a experienced AT player.
Sounds more like 1.02 or older.
In 1.10 the AI is a real challenge.
I did a test with "End of a Union" as EU player against russians and muslim federation both on AI+.
While i easily won in 1.02b i had bigger problems against the AI in 1.10.
The AI attacked better and it started to use AA guns. Test it and you´ll see the difference
when you can´t longer knock out the AI tanks and guns easily by air strikes.
At least you have to pay now for these attacks.
At a time i had my 1.02b game already won i started to get the 1.10i game under control step by step,
but i was still far away from winning !
And i would call myself a experienced AT player.