ASW Strategy

[ILCK]

In my second game I'm gonna try the IJN side and having watched the USN subs riddle the naval assets of the IJN I was wondering what the best ASW approach. My USN efforts never really worked all that well- the IJN subs killed more of my SC's than any other form of shipping- but I think it is gonna be a lot more critical as the Japs to kill subs.

[SuluSea]

Spooky's site would be a good place to start.  plenty of  tips and goodies at the site. [:)]

http://mathubert.free.fr/

1° I am getting massacred by US subs in my ports
Try creating entirely DD and APD TFs, perhaps with a CL, no more than that necessary. Should be around five or six ships total. Pick the DDs with 4 or more depth charges, then send them shuttling between the areas with subs.

Use the CS/AV ships and put them in a TF with DDs. Put all the float planes on ASW and set them to 100% / 1000 feet. If you have the option, put a CV TF or two on ASW. Use your Minelayers (MLs) to shuttle down from Truk and re-mine the harbours that are in danger. Put enough mines there and his subs will start hitting them.

Put other planes, Vals and your patrol planes particularly, on ASW 100%. Anytime they spot what might be a US sub in shallow water (use F2 to see shallow water hexes on the map), send a DD TF to it rather than waiting for it to come to you. Set them to Patrol and React in the sub's hex until they sink it.

So:

- Increase Air ASW coverage
- Form DD-based ASW TFs
- Use CS/AVs and CV TFs to create temporary high lethality areas for enemy subs
- Send DD ASW TFs out to kill subs when spotted

The US did not historically do so well, but they historically were not used nearly as aggressively as your opponent is using them. As with other parts of the game, you need to learn how to use ASW as well as your opponent knows how to use subs. You can make his strategy backfire with very heavy sub losses that will get his subs off your back for most of the campaign if you play your cards right.

The above suggestions have worked well for me. Note that if the main offenders are US S-Boats, they are particularly vulnerable in shallow water. While their torpedoes are more reliable, they are definitely going to pay the price for operating in harbor areas if you employ the above techniques. Remember also that the fog of war is particularly heavy with respect to subs. You may have damaged or sunk more than you realize - check the sunk ships list over the course of the upcoming weeks to make sure.  (Erik Rutins’ Tip)


And another tip at the site.


For ASW: When you have time, say the Allied player must stay down for some weeks, because of losses always make ASW, not only with your LBA, also with your ships. -----------> Create a CV Tf with (my prefered selection following) a Junyo class CV (with its general loadout) , a CVL (prefer Zuiho/Ryuho class) and equip it with a bomber group only (27 planes - experience very important for successful ASW attacks). Add one or two CS to that TF (the 40 float planes add massive to the ASW). Then add some 10 to 15 of your finest DDs to that task force (in regards of experience, DC type ...type 95 DC prefered of course, and DC throwers.... DDs with rails and throwers are better than those with rails only).

Then move them in a "sub - hotspot". Depending on your opponents options (some Subs on auto??) they come to get slaughtered. Do not get frustrated if it is not working instantly - take your time. With these Jap Hunter-Killer groups I get sometimes 3-5 subs in a operation (3 or 4 weeks). The success highly depends on the density of subs in the area and the experience of your crews/AGs.



So if you got plenty of sub reports, say, south of Rabaul, you now know what you can do to counter it. But in God´s name stay out of enemy CV, LBA with this ASW group or you will see your units slaughtered. Junyo´s CAP is the only Air defence of them.

By Reddon 45

[Ike99]

In my second game I'm gonna try the IJN side and having watched the USN subs riddle the naval
assets of the IJN I was wondering what the best ASW approach. My USN efforts never really worked all that well- the IJN subs killed more of my SC's than any other form of shipping- but I think it is gonna be a lot more critical as the Japs to kill subs.

I wouldn´t put too much confidence in that ASW tip write up at spookys ILCK..

For one,

Put other planes, Vals and your patrol planes particularly, on ASW 100%.

If you do this, over the time of a long campaign you will suffer quite a bit on the ops losses and break the pilots morale.

and...

Pick the DDs with 4 or more depth charges, then send them shuttling between the areas with subs.

Because a DD has 4 ASW launchers doesn´t always mean it´s a good submarine killer. Many of the DD´s carrying 4 ASW´s use the type 91 depth charge and its accuracy is low, doesn´t go very deep and doesn´t have a large explosion.

I would suggest the following tactics as the Japanese for ASW...

Use 4-6 Destroyers in hunter groups and to escort important convoys.

Use the Japanese destroyer classes of...

Akatsuki
Hatsuharu
Shiratsuyo
Asashio
Kagero
Yugumo
Shimakaze
Akitsuki

At least one of destroyers per DD group should be of the Yugumo Class as it has a surface search radar. Something quite effective at spotting and attacking submarines.

With your CS and AV ships you should put these along your convoy routes in strategic locations.

Gili-Gili, Lae, Munda, Tulagi, Kaveing, etc..

Set these ships in the ports and transfer float plane aircraft to the airfield. Put them on ASW, 50%, 1000ft. This gives you good air coverage over your supply routes against submarines and reinforces your regular recon planes.

You should break up your little patrol boats in groups of 2 and put them in every port.

Occasionally they spot a submarine trying to lay mines or lay in the harbor. More importantly is submarines like to take shots at them and these little boats are extremely hard for them to hit making them waste torpedoes and in the end puts system damage on the Allied submarines.

If you do these things it creates a very difficult place for the Allied submarines to operate in effectively. Occasionally, if you spot a submarine in Rabaul harbor for example, it can be good to put your Rabaul bombers on 100% ASW , 1000ft, for one or two turns but as a rule I wouldn´t use my bombers so much like this.

Just my 2 centavos but give these tactics a try and see what you get.

check the last post...
Sub Hunting

[decaro]

I think you got some good tips, but if you're short on surface vessels, you can also use Bettys in an ASW role; in my current PBEM, my opponent put much of his air on 80% ASW, and it successfully broke the sub strangle-hold I had on Rabaul.

After his aerial attacks, I noticed that though most of my subs were not sunk or even badly damaged, many ended-up w/o any fuel and had to slowly return to Bribane; so even if you don't sink'em, you've put these subs out of action for many turns just w/air.

[tocaff]

Yep, I used Bettys that needed a break from naval attacks for ASW along with Nells and after a couple of turns the subs were temporality on the run.  Then the Bettys were ready for more important tasks, like getting shot down during naval attacks.  [:@]

[stevebhoy]

have recently picked up a copy of this game and i was wondering if anyone could give me some good tips as a new starter in naval campaigns,have tried some wargaming with land battles,but this looks very good and rewarding if played right ....thanks

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: stevebhoy

have recently picked up a copy of this game and i was wondering if anyone could give me some good tips as a new starter in naval campaigns ...

There's an FAQ w/some tips at the top of the UV forum, otherwise keep your surface fleets at about 15 ships or less; make sure there are enough escorts for capital ships, and use DDs w/high AAA value to protect your CVs, along w/Cls and CLAAs.

But that's just the beginning ...

[ILCK]

ORIGINAL: stevebhoy

have recently picked up a copy of this game and i was wondering if anyone could give me some good tips as a new starter in naval campaigns,have tried some wargaming with land battles,but this looks very good and rewarding if played right ....thanks

I've had to take those fragile SoB's off of airfield or port attacks and only let them out if there are naval vessels I want killed, otherwise their losses are just too high.

[DEB]

ORIGINAL: ILCK

ORIGINAL: stevebhoy

have recently picked up a copy of this game and i was wondering if anyone could give me some good tips as a new starter in naval campaigns,have tried some wargaming with land battles,but this looks very good and rewarding if played right ....thanks

I've had to take those fragile SoB's off of airfield or port attacks and only let them out if there are naval vessels I want killed, otherwise their losses are just too high.

????

Is this the right quote?

I take it you are referring to Betty/Nell aircraft here, in reply to Tocaff.

[Ike99]

have recently picked up a copy of this game and i was wondering if anyone could give me some good tips as a new starter in naval campaigns,have tried some wargaming with land battles,but this looks very good and rewarding if played right ....thanks

Use the search function on this UV forum (bottom right corner) and read the AAR´s.

As the Japanese...learn to use, live by and generally love the Long Lance Torpedo.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

... As the Japanese...learn to use, live by and generally love the Long Lance Torpedo

Can the IJN player actually trigger a Long Lance attack?

If I'm not mistaken, most IJN ships/crews have good night training numbers, so bombardment is that player's best option for his TFs; it often results in night attacks that can include surface action if an enemy fleet is nearby.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: ILCK

I've had to take those fragile SoB's off of airfield or port attacks and only let them out if there are naval vessels I want killed, otherwise their losses are just too high.

Betty's w/fish are great vs. TFs/ships in port, otherwise the Betty is no B-17.

[Ike99]

Can the IJN player actually trigger a Long Lance attack?

so bombardment is that player's best option for his TFs; it often results in night attacks that can include surface action if an enemy fleet is nearby.

There is nothing specifically the Japanese can do to trigger a Long Lance torpedo attack but you can/should put the odds as much in favor of one happening as possible.

Both sides actually trigger a Long Lance torpedo attack.

A few things from both the Allies and the Japanese have to happen to trigger a Long Lance torpedo attack.

Before combat the Allied players task force has to fail with radar or visual spotting, OR fail a skill roll. Something they are very prone to doing considering most of their ships have night EXP in the 30´s.

The Japanese side must pass a skill rolls. Something not very difficult for them considering most of their ships have very high night EXP ratings. This can, should be improved upon by picking a leader with a high surface combat rating. Tanaka is a prime candidate here with an 87.

You can even further your odds more by looking at the individual ships and those with the best at night fighting, here are the best...

Name Class Exp Night
Takao Takao 96
Mutsuki Mutsuki 88
Michishi Asashio 84
Hatsushima Hatsuharu 84
Ushio Fubuki 84
Niizuki Akitsuki 83
Isokaze Kagero 83
Arashio Asashio 83
Arare Asashio 83
Yayoi Mutsuki 83
Kamikaze Kamikaze 83
Yunagi Kamikaze 83
Sendai Sendai 82
Hatsuzuki Akitsuki 82
Hatsukaze Kagero 82
Asashio Asashio 82
Minegumo Asashio 82
Nagatsuki Mutsuki 82
Yuzuki Mutsuki 82
Namikaze Minekaze 82
Terusuki Akitsuki 81
Okinami Yugumo 81
Tokitsukaze Kagero 81
Wakaba Hatsuharu 81
Akatsuki Akatsuki 81
Uranami Fubuki 81
Fumizuki Mutsuki 81
Harukaze Kamikaze 81
Matsukaze Kamikaze 81
Takashima Hirashima 81
Kako Furutaka 80
Katori Katori 80
Nagara Nagara 80
Tatsuta Tenryu 80
Makinami Yugumo 80
Urakaze Kagero 80
Ariake Hatsuharu 80
Murakumo Fubuki 80
Minazuki Mutsuki 80
Niizaki Hirashima 80
Yurijima Hirashima 80

Now you have all the info you need to devastate an Allied surface group. [;)]

so bombardment is that player's best option for his TFs; it often results in night attacks that can include surface action if an enemy fleet is nearby.

I most always use surface combat because I specifically put my Long Lance TF together just for that purpose. The Battleships mostly have night fight EXP in the 70´s and I don´t want them to ruin my Long Lance attack chance. I figure if I can deliver a hard blow by LL then move in the BB´s to put on the finishing touches and do the Bombardments.

Another thing to consider is mines. Surface Combat TF mostly avoid defensive mines while it seems Bombardment groups hit them a lot. You want to try and keep those Long Lance ships FAST.

[decaro]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

... I most always use surface combat because I specifically put my Long Lance TF together just for that purpose ...
... Another thing to consider is mines. Surface Combat TF mostly avoid defensive mines while it seems Bombardment groups hit them a lot ...

Daytime surface combat is usu. at distances too great for even the reach of a Long Lance.
If you have sufficient screening vessels w/your capital ships, mines shouldn't pose a serious threat to your capital ships, even at night. Then again, mines together w/PTs and other surface vessels can wound and whittle a bombardment fleet down to size.