WAW v30

[tweber]

Just posted new version of WAW on the scenario bank:

- Used Jamiam's shorter aircraft ranges, R&D costs, and pp grants with some changes. (this is now a mod of a mod)
- To reduce mechanization, I have significantly increased supply cost of vehicles, planes, and ships.
- The West has cards that can blunt the German offensive
- China and Japan start in a stalmate condition so China has some time to build up
- China gets half it's supply need through an event if Chung King is controlled (represents dispersed production)
- Japan gets 1/3rd it's supply need from the US until the Japanese offesensive is declared. I did away with the more expensive supply.
- Germany gets 2000 supply from the Soviets until at war.
- Fixed the Dutch East Indies bug when Japan goes to war against the West.

Appreciate continued feedback

[jjdenver]

Oh nice - I like the changes - I'm really enjoying Jamiam's mod although I think maybe the A/C ranges are a little bit too short in his. I also like his map changes a lot.

[zook08]

I just joined a three-player v27a game, but we're only on turn 3 but I don't know what some of these fixes are about. Is there an absolute show stopper in the old version, i.e. do you think we should start over?

[Vic]

tom,
 
does this version also fix IRONCROMs issue with Borneo?
 
kind regards,
Vic

[tweber]

This does fix the issue with Borneo. 
 
Playing the other version is not a show stopper.  However, the Western player should not fortify the Dutch East Indies or Malaysia.
 
For house rules, I suggest:
 
- No neutral fleet blocking (e.g., putting three western fleets around Tokyo)
- No map edge blocking (e.g., running a line of ships from Northern UK to map edge to prevent Uboat sorties as uboats could go further north).

[tweber]

I just joined a three-player v27a game, but we're only on turn 3 but I don't know what some of these fixes are about. Is there an absolute show stopper in the old version, i.e. do you think we should start over?

In the new version, China is much more resilient and supply for ships, aircraft, and vehicles is very expensive so you are likely to use more infantry, horses, and artillery. The new scenario should play quite differently.

[dplummer]

Forum lurker finally deciding to get involved.

It seems that Medium Tanks can no longer be produced by either side? Is this true or am I (as is often the case) confused?

Thanks.

[explorer2]

GREAT mod Tom, continuing to get better.

Very minor point in v30: political points show up in the infantry item group now.

Trains are a very nice feature, and glad you adjusted range of aircraft. I just saw something that said the death rate of US Bomber airmen was 50% through the war, the highest of any type of personnel. This occurred after the bombers had to leave their fighter escorts behind due to the different ranges.

One question: with the doubling of the cost of factories, how many pp can they produce a turn now, and where do you find that info?

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: dplummer

Forum lurker finally deciding to get involved.

It seems that Medium Tanks can no longer be produced by either side? Is this true or am I (as is often the case) confused?

Thanks.

Hi,

The production of Medium Tanks is enabled with Tank II. The production of Tank Destroyers and Heavy Tanks is enabled with Tank III. Bazookas require both Heavy Infantry III and Rifle/SMG III as a prerequisite.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: explorer2

GREAT mod Tom, continuing to get better.

Very minor point in v30: political points show up in the infantry item group now.

Tom wanted to break away PP production from resource hexes, so that they only produce supplies. It looks like he made the change as simple as possible by lumping PP into infantry, since this is something that can be produced by all the powers in any factory, or producing city, but not in resource hexes.

ORIGINAL: explorer2
One question: with the doubling of the cost of factories, how many pp can they produce a turn now, and where do you find that info?

See my post in the thread that you started in the main AT forum.

[dplummer]

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: dplummer

Forum lurker finally deciding to get involved.

It seems that Medium Tanks can no longer be produced by either side? Is this true or am I (as is often the case) confused?

Thanks.

Hi,

The production of Medium Tanks is enabled with Tank II. The production of Tank Destroyers and Heavy Tanks is enabled with Tank III. Bazookas require both Heavy Infantry III and Rifle/SMG III as a prerequisite.

Thanks.

From the screen shot it appears Heavy Tanks are enabled? I haven't actually attempted to produce, but they are in the list unlike tank destroyers and medium tanks.

I like the tiered availability approach, btw. It makes the decision to research or not much more important.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: dplummer

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: dplummer

Forum lurker finally deciding to get involved.

It seems that Medium Tanks can no longer be produced by either side? Is this true or am I (as is often the case) confused?

Thanks.

Hi,

The production of Medium Tanks is enabled with Tank II. The production of Tank Destroyers and Heavy Tanks is enabled with Tank III. Bazookas require both Heavy Infantry III and Rifle/SMG III as a prerequisite.

Thanks.

From the screen shot it appears Heavy Tanks are enabled? I haven't actually attempted to produce, but they are in the list unlike tank destroyers and medium tanks.

I like the tiered availability approach, btw. It makes the decision to research or not much more important.

You're right. My apologies. I was making my comment based on the mod I created, and that Tom used part of in his version 30. Apparently, when he was revising some of my production costs, and supply values, he enabled the production of Heavy Tanks with that tech level. I don't know if that was intentional or not.

[tweber]

I wanted to make level 1 vehicles available for level 1 research.  So, Medium tanks and tank destroyers should be available.  The limiting factor for vehicles will be supply.  Rifle costs 100 production and consumers 2 supply.  Heavy tanks cost 6000 production and consume 240 supply (or 2x the production adjusted cost).  For the price of a heavy tank, you could get 3 light tanks with 3x the mobility (though the heavy tank would do better in a single combat (but not neccessary against an attack from light tanks across 3 hex sides.
 
Overall, I think supply will pose a much bigger constraint on regimes that rely on mechanized units (ships, planes, vehicles).
 
I took political points out of non-combat and put them in infantry so resource areas do not become R&D labs.

[explorer2]

I love the tiered research approach.

I also like the realism of increasing production. Even so, I believe by increased production being automatic, like it is now in v30, it limits gameplay options. I would prefer to see some way where you have to make the hard decision about whether to produce units vs. technology/something that would THEN automatically increase production. Maybe something like a factory that could be built only in existing production centers, that might also require a specific technology. I'm not sure how you would do this, because it would need to be costly AND take time before it becomes effective (don't want to multiply production unrealistically soon).

Finally, I must have some incomplete knowledge of WWII and mechanization. You're significantly reducing its role in the game, yet I thought one of the war's distinctives was it being the first war that had a strong reliance on mechanization? I don't really get what that's about. Love to understand the basis behind it.

Again, great work overall, and I'm impressed how quickly you're updating/revising it.

[tweber]

There is a strong reliance on mechanization but currently, it is too easy to have a completely mechanized battle in the Eastern Front in 1941.  You can build lots of mechanized units, the difficulty will be in supplying them.  Supply ultimately constrains your force.  You can have twice the force (from a production standpoint, if you are not mechanized).

[dplummer]

I just confirmed that Medium tanks come available only with Armor 2 and Tank Destroyers only with Armor 3.

But that unlke JAMiAM comment, Bazookas are available immediatly with Heavy Infantry.

If Panther / Tiger is the German equivalent of a Heavy Tank it would seem reasonable to prevent their construct immediately at start. Maybe not the two stepped approach, but at least 1?

Comment on air craft ranges - I think they may be too short, but not by much except for bombers.

Just looking at early war German mainstay aircraft.

Berlin to Waraw = 525 km, about 8 hexes or 65 km / hex.

Ju87a range with bombs approx 800 km (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87). Roundtrip range of approx 13 hexes. BF109 was similar.

But it would seem that bomber ranges need extended. HE111 service range of approx 2800 km is more than 3x that of fighters of the day. JU88 comes in at 2100 or 2.5 x.

So that points to something like Figther with range of 6 (and intercept of 3). Dive bomber range of 6 also. But level bomber of at least 12 (if not say 15).

If you want to take the chance you should be able to send bombers quite a bit farther than fighter escorts can follow.

[explorer2]

Thanks for the clarification Tom. I obviously haven't had time yet to see the effects in action (v27 or v30).

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: dplummer
But that unlke JAMiAM comment, Bazookas are available immediatly with Heavy Infantry.

Yes, please disregard my comment on the prerequisites. They are only applicable to my own mod, and not to version 30. Sorry to add any confusion to the case at hand.

[freeboy]

Guys, Jamium was using my CA reducing mod, have u included anything  from the vinilla stregths to reduce the ca against air power"?

[von altair]

I like this new v30 and its new things. I don't know how does it work, to give the west an ability to counter west blitz tho. We will see...

I patched few things in it and added it on my old thread.