Forum-Generated Battle AAR

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, I'm going to take a leap of faith here. Out of the last 50 Random Battles I've played, probably 49 have been interesting and entertaining and the other one was a total blowout due to a perfectly bad matchup of forces. Given those odds, I'm going to let you guys specify the parameters of a random battle for me and then I'll generate it and play it and post a brief AAR so that you can see how it came out. If the forum is undecided on any parameters, I'll make the decision or randomize them, otherwise majority rules.

Ok, here's the screen and your 10 decisions:

1. Which side should I play and what Year and Season should this battle be? (Summer 41 - Fall 44 for best unit coverage)
2. How many points for each side? (350,500,800 - I've limited it to these to make the choice easier, there are a lot more options for the points range in the RBG, these roughly correspond to small/medium/large battle)
3. Reinforcements for either side a possibility?
4. Minefields for either side? (None / Sparse / Dense)
5. Posture: Germany Attacking, Defending or Defending with a Time Bonus? Soviets Attacking, Defending or Defending with a Time Bonus? (Note that both can Attack, which is a Meeting Engagement)
6. Experience: Germany Green/Veteran/Elite in terms? Soviets Green/Veteran/Elite?
7. Strength: Full, Operational or Under Strength for each side?
8. Setup: Germany and Soviet directions (i.e. East/West, North/South or special setups like Kessel/Envelop)
9. Force Mix: You see the percentages there, I can pick from a few presets or we can adjust them ourselves to whatever mix we want as long as it totals to 100%. Obviously, you can really screw one side if you don't set these intelligently, which is why we provide the default setting. Should I keep the default or adjust it for each side in any category?
10. Map: Just give me a general preference based on your season choice - the Winter maps are fairly flat, but the summer maps vary and some of each have rivers, some are more open, some have balkas or villages, etc. What kind of map do you want?

Regards,

- Erik

[rickier65]

1. Fall 1941

2. German 350, Soviet 500

3. yes both

4. none

5. Both Attack

6. German Veteran, Soviet green

7. Not sure how this relates to points - but say German Operational, Soviet Full

8. German --> east; Soviet --> west

9. default

10. summer map with with river (maybe in middle with village?)

Thanks!
Rick

edited to make easier to score

[Ron]

1. Russian/Fall 42
2. 500 each side
3. No reinforcements
4. None (minefields)
5. Both Attack
6. German-Veteran/Russian-Green
7. Both Operational
8. East/West
9. German: 30% Inf/5% AC/15% Art/0% Air/10% AT/40% Arm
    Russian: 40% Inf/0% AC/10% Art/0% Air/10% AT/40% Arm
10. Village in the center
 

[jamespcrowley]

1. Summer '44 (Bagration) Erik, German.
2. Soviet 500; German 350
3. Reinforcements; Soviet, yes. German, no.
4. No minefields
5. German defending with a time bonus from turn 20 (slow down the Soviet roller coaster)
6. Veteran for both sides
7. German, understrength. Russian, operational.
8. Russians attack West.
9. German; inf 50%; AC 0%; Art 15%; AT 20%; Air 0%; Arm 15%
    Soviet  ; inf 40%; AC 10%; Art 20%; AT 0%; Air 0%; Arm 30%
10. Open terrain with scattered trees and hills. 

[WhiteOwl]

Very similar to Jim's but with more Arty for the sovs:

1. Summer '44
2. Soviet 500; German 350
3. Reinforcements; Soviet, yes. German, no.
4. No minefields
5. German defending with a time bonus from turn 20 (slow down the Soviet roller coaster)
6. Veteran for both sides
7. German, understrength. Russian, operational.
8. Russians attack West.
9. German; inf 50%; AC 0%; Art 15%; AT 20%; Air 0%; Arm 15%
Soviet ; inf 40%; AC 10%; Art 40%; AT 0%; Air 0%; Arm 10%
10. Open terrain with scattered trees and hills.

Cheers

[Grell]

1. Summer 1943
2. 500 Pts Each
3. No Reinforcements
4. No Minefields
5. German Attacking, Russian Attacking
6. Russian Veteran, German Elite
7. German and Russian Operational
8. Germans Attacking East
9. 100% Armor Both Sides.
10. Open Fields

[Mraah]

Identical to Grell's ... except ... change (5) to Russian Defending, no time bonus.

... if possible add gunpits with an AFV inside.
I'd like to see how well the gunpit defends for hull down.

Thank you Erik,
Rob

1. Summer 1943
2. 500 Pts Each
3. No Reinforcements
4. No Minefields
5. German Attacking, Russian Defending (no bonus)
6. Russian Veteran, German Elite
7. German and Russian Operational
8. Germans Attacking East
9. 100% Armor Both Sides.
10. Open Fields

[ravinhood]

1. Summer 1943 (Erik plays Germans)
2. 800 Pts Each
3. Reinforcements
4. No Minefields
5. German Attacking, Russian Attacking (meeting engagement)
6. Russian Elite, German Green
7. German and Russian Operational 
8. Germans Attacking East - Russians attacking west
9. 20% Armor Both Sides. 10% Air 15% Arty rest infantry non moblizied
10. Small Village 

No time limit or at least 60 turns min.

[z1812]

Hi All

1. Summer 1943
2. 350 Pts Each
3. No Reinforcements
4. No Minefields
5. Meeting Egagement
6. Russian Veteran, German Veteran
7. German and Russian Operational
8. No Matter. But a large map ( room for manouver ) with fair terrain to both sides.
9. German; inf 40%; AC 0%; Art 15%; AT 20%; Air 0%; Arm 25%
Soviet ; ,inf 40%; AC 0%; Art 15%; AT 20%; Air 0%; Arm 25%
10.Fall.

I would like to see how a small but equal battle plays out. It would also be interesting if it was played hotseat as well as single player.

regards John

[kam99]

1. Summer 1943
2. 500 Pts Each
3. No Reinforcements
4. No Minefields
5. German Attacking, Russian Attacking
6. Russian Veteran, German Vetran
7. German and Russian Operational
8. Germans Attacking East
9. 100% Armor Both Sides.
10. Open terrain

[Erik Rutins]

Thanks folks, keep posting. I'll collate the results tomorrow morning and see if I can figure out some consensus. I may have to "roll" in a few cases to see which choice is the final one.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, let's see what we have here then, raw data is posted below. Some of these were clear choices, others not as much. Here's what we end up with.

1. Summer, 1943 was the clear winner here with 5 of 9 votes cast in its favor. 5 of 9 votes also did not specify which side I should play, but there were two Play German votes vs. one Play Soviet vote so I used that as the tiebreaker, I'll be playing Germans in Summer, 1943.

2. I decided to average out the points and then round to the closest, so we ended up with German: 450 and Soviet: 500. Honestly, I rarely fight so close 1:1 points with the AI after all these games, so this may be quick. [;)]

3. Reinforcements None ended up winning. I think battles with Reinforcements can be a bit more dynamic, but your wish is my command.

4. No Minefields!

5. 6 of 9 voters wanted a Meeting Engagement with Both Attacking, so that's what we will do.

6. The most votes went to German Veteran and Soviet Veteran.

7. The most votes went to German Operational Strength and Soviet Operational Strength

8. German East vs. Soviet West was the clear winner.

9. This was a tricky one to collate. The majority of votes wanted some infantry, some artillery and air and some armor. Most votes wanted more A few votes wanted a lot of armor, but most didn't want an overwhelming amount. Only a few felt very strongly about transport/recon or field guns. Here's the compromise ratio I came up with from your votes.

German/Soviet : 30 / 5 / 15 / 15 / 0 / 35

10. Map-wise, the biggest requests in order were for a summer map, an open map and a village. So I decided to go with a summer map that had a village but was mostly open. All set! I'll post more in a short while once I've put this all in and generated the battle.

1.
Fall 1941
Fall 1942
Summer 1944
Summer 1944
Summer 1943
Summer 1943
Summer 1943
Summer 1943
Summer 1943
Play Either
Play Soviet
Play German
Play Either
Play Either
Play German
Play Either
Play Either
2.
German 350, 500, 350, 350, 500, 500, 800, 350, 500
Soviet 500, 500, 500, 500, 500, 500, 800, 350, 500
3.
Reinforcements Both
Reinforcements None
Reinforcements Soviet
Reinforcements Soviet
Reinforcements None
Reinforcements None
Reinforcements Both
Reinforcements None
Reinforcements None
4.
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
No Minefields
5.
Both Attack
Both Attack
German Defend with Time Bonus
German Defend with Time Bonus
Both Attack
Soviet Defend with Time Bonus
Both Attack
Both Attack
Both Attack
6.
German Veteran
German Veteran
German Veteran
German Veteran
German Elite
German Elite
German Green
German Veteran
German Veteran
Soviet Green
Soviet Green
Soviet Veteran
Soviet Veteran
Soviet Veteran
Soviet Veteran
Soviet Elite
Soviet Veteran
Soviet Veteran
7.
German Operational
German Operational
German Understrength
German Understrength
German Operational
German Operational
German Operational
German Operational
Soviet Full
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
Soviet Operational
8.
German East
German East
German East
German East
German East
German East
German Random
German East
Soviet West
Soviet West
Soviet West
Soviet West
Soviet West
Soviet West
Soviet Random
Soviet West
9.
German Default (25/10/10/10/10/35)
German 30/5/15/0/10/40
German 50/0/15/20/0/15
German 50/0/15/20/0/15
German 0/0/0/0/0/100
German 0/0/0/0/0/100
German 55/0/15/10/0/20
German 40/0/15/20/0/25
Soviet Default (30/5/10/5/15/35)
Soviet 40/0/10/0/10/40
Soviet 40/10/20/0/0/30
Soviet 40/10/40/0/0/10
Soviet 0/0/0/0/0/100
Soviet 55/0/15/10/0/20
Soviet 40/0/15/20/0/25
Soviet 0/0/0/0/0/100
10.
Summer map with river and village
Fall map with village
Summer map open with trees and hills
Summer map open with trees and hills
Summer map open fields
Summer map with village
Fall map
Summer map open

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, here's the RBG, setup as requested, about to click Build.

[Erik Rutins]

Er... except that I forgot to set the German points to 450. Done now and building.

[Erik Rutins]

Here's our briefing, in two screens.

[Erik Rutins]

Briefing Part 2

[Erik Rutins]

Here's our force purchase screen. We ended up with a mix of forces as expected based on our sliders and the default force preset, which does not rule out any unit types. Some of the platoons are understrength and we could skip choosing the full list to use our points to instead fill out some platoons we really want. I opted to do this, leaving a Green HMG Team behind an instead filling out a platoon of Veteran Regular '43 infantry from 5 to 6 squads. Fortunately (the odds were in my favor) adding a replacement squad did not bump down their Veteran experience. The three tanks totaled up at 156 points in value, which is about a third of our force total as we'd requested.

Our total force is as follows:

12x Regular Wehrmacht Infantry Squads
4x SS PanzerGrenadier Squads
2x SdKfz 250 Halftracks
4x SS Infantry Squads
4x MG-43 Machine Gun Teams
2x 50mm On-Map Mortars
2x Panzer IIIJ Late (50mm/L60)
1x Panzer IVG
1x 81mm Off-Map Mortar
3x 150mm Off-Map Artillery
2x JU-87 Stukas

You can also see on the preview map that there are two objectives for each side set around the middle of the map, with a pair set quite close to each other in a bit of woods right in the middle. Should be interesting...

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, I've just entered the battle map and it's the setup phase. The RBG initially places your units and it's designed to use locations that make sense. Nevertheless, there are always adjustments to make. You can adjust any placement up to 250m as long as it doesn't get too close to the enemy (spotted or not).

Right now, I'm pretty happy because I start out already seeing some Soviet T-60As and my armor is more than a match for those (if that's all they've got). However, their T-60As are in the Northeast part of the map and I only have infantry in the Northwest. All three of my tanks are in the Southwest. I'll look around to see if I can place them to engage the T-60As from the get go. If not, I'll probably want to move to engage as soon as possible before they get close enough that their 20mm cannons can actually cause me significant harm. My tanks don't have much to fear from them, but my infantry does.

Here's a screenshot, I'll post again once I've finished my placement.

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, here's the southern half of my setup.

With about 300 points of objectives out there it's really going to be important to defend the ones I "own" and grab those that I don't. I shuffled things around a bit as the southern part of the map is clearly better for infantry with the large wooded section, some buildings, the treeline, etc. In general there are also undulations in the terrain that help limit line of sight more in the South than in the North.

As a result, I shifted a lot of my infantry as far South as I could. I have a group of Regular Infantry in the central woods that are ready to head for the two central objectives as soon as I confirm the coast is clear. I have some more Regular Infantry and a HMG team in the far south about to head into the woods to defend the objective there. Meanwhile SS Infantry and Halftracks are along the road. They may drive to the central objectives, but I may redirect them to the woods objective if my other infantry need help defending that.

My panzers were moved from the south to the center as far as I could. I don't have line of sight to the T-60As yet, but I do have line of sight to the objective and if they drive straight for it, I'll likely get some flank shots too. If other armor shows up elsewhere, I'm centrally positioned to respond to that too.

One concern is that given the presets, I could be facing quite a bit of artillery and air and if the Soviets see you on Turn 1, they hit you pretty hard with artillery in particular. I've tried to keep as many of my forces in cover or out of sight of the enemy as I could in the South.

In the North, things are a bit different, as you'll see in the next post

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, in the North I did not have the ideal tools for the job, so I pulled back a bit. I've got a line of SS PanzerGrenadiers at the edge of the plowed field, where they are staying stationary in cover and hopefully not spotted by the Soviets just yet.

Behind them is some Regular Infantry, some MG42 Teams and my two 50mm mortars, all with line of sight to the objective area. My hope is that if my Panzers can deal with the T-60As, then my group here will be able to deny the objective area to any infantry that is accompanying them. I have a good amount of anti-infantry firepower up there, but nothing that can really deal with those T-60s without Panzer assistance.

I don't plan to move my northern infantry at all until I see what exactly the AI has up there.

By the way, out of curiosity I checked what the chance for T-60As is in August, 1943 for any given Soviet tank platoon/company - it's about 6%, so right now I'm feeling pretty lucky that I don't see T-34s or anything worse.

Regards,

- Erik