How different from CMBB?

[76mm]

Sorry for asking the obvious question, but now that the game is out I'm trying to decide whether to buy it.

I still play CMBB a lot, even after all of these years, and am pretty happy with it. Looking at the features of Kharkov, I don't really see anything that makes this game better than CMBB, other than its modability (is that a word?), which is very cool. Am I missing something? Can anyone who has played both compare the two?

I'd like to get this game but so far haven't convinced myself. I'm not trying to slam this game, but am completely ignorant of it, and would like more input before making a decision.

Also, if you allow players to edit end-game files, as discussed in a different thread, that alone would probably be enough to convince to get the game.

[Erik Rutins]

Well, folks have gotten quite excited over the random campaigns feature, but let me bump up another thread that answered this very question...

[madorosh]

Hey 76...

The camera controls may be frustrating to you coming from a long-standing CM background. With some getting used to, you'll get the hang of it. I guess they said the same thing about CM:SF too, though, didn't they...

The interface is just as friendly; right click and you have all your gameplay menus.  No map editor yet, but the scenario editor lets you reuse the maps that come with the game, and those with 3D editing ability may be making maps for the community soon (the way Close Combat or Operation Flashpoint modders used to do I guess).

Gameplay seems fairly close; the pace seems slower, to me, in PC and the maps seems more open and "real" than the CM maps, but maybe I'm letting their map doodads fool me (telephone poles and cows and outhouses).

Hard to know what kind of substantial detail to include in a reply - anything specific you're looking to know?

[76mm]

I just saw the multi-page thread which seems to address this issue as well...let me review that before asking more specific questions. Thanks for the feedback so far.

[ravinhood]

The Random Campaign Generator alone would set this game above CM as long as you have and can use IE 7.0 that's what had sold me on the game the RCG and the ability to set yourself a 100 battles to the end. That's even better than SPWAW does it. There's a few other nitpicky things like no real death step loss animations of the infantry until they are all dead in the unit, but, that shouldn't really stop you or anyone else from getting this one. I can't play it because of the IE 7.0 issue, and I don't really want just a game of scenarios I wanted it for the RMG and RCG. So, if you can use IE 7.0 you should get it and not worry about how it compares to CM. You could think of this one the "Combat Mission Campaigns" game they never finished.

[Erik Rutins]

Well, the Random Campaign Generator is actually different from what was planned for CMC. It's much more like the Steel Panthers Campaigns. Lots of fun, lots of replayability but it's a series of tactical battles with units carrying over, gaining experiece and medas, etc.

[madorosh]

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showthr ... post986692

There is some discussion at gamesquad.com that may be helpful also. The thread starts out slow but gets very specific in its comparisons of CMBB and PC:K.

[thewood1]

Check out the discussion on the BFC general forum also.  I did a short comparison there.

[jomni]

game mechanics are different (PCK is based on boardgame rules, CM games are more simulaiton with physics)
only the representation is the same.

[76mm]

I've looked at the PCK Features list for some info, but all it seems to list are new features, and the PCOWS forum doesn't seem to include a features list at all, so I've got some basic questions:

1) what is the typical map size? Max map size?
2) what size (ie, company vs. plt, etc.) are most of the included scenarios?

Erik, thanks for all of the feedback on this forum, keep up the good work!

[Erik Rutins]

Hi 76mm,

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I've looked at the PCK Features list for some info, but all it seems to list are new features, and the PCOWS forum doesn't seem to include a features list at all, so I've got some basic questions:

1) what is the typical map size? Max map size?
2) what size (ie, company vs. plt, etc.) are most of the included scenarios?

1. The maps in both Winterstorm and Kharkov are 1km x 1km in size. We know that limits the possible battle sizes and we plan to expand the map size for the next release, but I think you'll find the current maps do provide a lot of good fun historical play.

2. I think most of the included ones average around 3 companies per side, with some larger ones and some smaller ones. With the Random Battle Generator and the Scenario Editor, you can make them as small or as large as you like, within what would reasonably fit on a 1km map.

Erik, thanks for all of the feedback on this forum, keep up the good work!

Thanks for your interest!

Regards,

- Erik

[76mm]

Well, I've spent the whole evening getting caught up reading the various fora; this game seems to be generating a lot of interest.

To me, the biggest drawbacks of PCW seem to be (in no particular order):

1) no map editor;
2) small map size;
3) no weather effects or night [?]
4) buildings not destructible (just seems bizarre to me).

It sounds like at least the first 3 might be fixed in the next release, right? What about destructible buildings?

I'm leaning toward picking this up, mainly to support what seems like a promising series (and very responsive dev team), but not sure I'll play it much until the issues above get resolved.

Also, wanted to clarify something about the bundle offer: if I buy the bundle, I'll also be able to play the PCOWS scenarios straight from PCK, right, or do I need to switch between games to play?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Well, I've spent the whole evening getting caught up reading the various fora; this game seems to be generating a lot of interest.
To me, the biggest drawbacks of PCW seem to be (in no particular order):
1) no map editor;
2) small map size;
3) no weather effects or night [?]
4) buildings not destructible (just seems bizarre to me).
It sounds like at least the first 3 might be fixed in the next release, right? What about destructible buildings?

All four of those are actually planned to be improved for the next release. I should also note that although buildings are not destructible, the chance of a shot penetrating them and affecting the occupant at full effect is modeled.

I'm leaning toward picking this up, mainly to support what seems like a promising series (and very responsive dev team), but not sure I'll play it much until the issues above get resolved.

If you do, you will certainly have my thanks and yes, it will definitely help support future development and speed it up.

Also, wanted to clarify something about the bundle offer: if I buy the bundle, I'll also be able to play the PCOWS scenarios straight from PCK, right, or do I need to switch between games to play?

That's correct, if you install Winterstorm first and then Kharkov, then you get all the updated Winterstorm content installed as part of Kharkov and can play it all from within the new Kharkov game with the updated Kharkov engine.

Regards,

- Erik