Attack planning window

[rocketman71]

I'm using JM's graphics mod. In the attack planning window, the time estimator shows green or red dots. What's the difference between them and how does it affect combat and the time it takes. I guess red is bad, but in what way?

Regards

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy

I'm using JM's graphics mod. In the attack planning window, the time estimator shows green or red dots. What's the difference between them and how does it affect combat and the time it takes. I guess red is bad, but in what way?

Regards

I can only describe it for the original graphics, which has steel & gold squares. I don't know which correlates to JM's red & green.

The steel squares represent combat rounds either already expended in previous combat phases or in the attack plans of other attacks for the current combat phase that have already been set up. The gold squares represent combat rounds that will be expended by the start round of the combat being planned (i.e. currently shown in the attack planner).

If the number of steel squares exceeds the current combat round then an existing attack is starting late. If the number of gold squares exceeds one, then the current attack is starting late.

A summary of this sort of information can be viewed graphically in the "stars" panel, and in text in the info panel if the cursor is placed in the "stars" panel.

Usually, one doesn't want attacks to start late, since this wastes combat rounds. But there are circumstances where it's appropriate (an advanced topic).

[rocketman71]

Thanks for the reply Curtis. So that I don't confuse terminology - combat rounds are what the manual refers to as tactical rounds (10 total) and combat phase is the current set of planned attacks (before pressing the flag button to proceed)? Could one summerize the procedure of using your turn to the fullest (in a crude way), as: move as little as possible and conduct vital attacks, then move as little as possible and conduct some more attacks, then repeat this process as many time as possible?

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I can only describe it for the original graphics, which has steel & gold squares. I don't know which correlates to JM's red & green.

In my mod I use green dots instead of gold squares and red dots instead of steel squares.

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy

Thanks for the reply Curtis. So that I don't confuse terminology - combat rounds are what the manual refers to as tactical rounds (10 total) and combat phase is the current set of planned attacks (before pressing the flag button to proceed)? Could one summerize the procedure of using your turn to the fullest (in a crude way), as: move as little as possible and conduct vital attacks, then move as little as possible and conduct some more attacks, then repeat this process as many time as possible?

No, simple would be MOVE EVERYTHING but start only those attacks that use minimum of your turn. Sometimes you will want to plan 3 rounds for first phase. (when that is vital hex to take and anyway you don't need as many rounds as possible). Many times first round is just probing attack (min losses).

But TOAW is game that is not mastered in a one day.


Mario

[rocketman71]

Mario, I get your point about moving every unit first. I'm a novice at this game and is still struggling with finding a effective way to micro manage my troops and using the finer points to my advantage. I'm currently playing the Normandy (classic) scenario. There's is not much room to move, so I have to do it in waves like I said in my previous comment. The first attacks to repel the enemy units, move into their position and attack again, and so on.

On another point, on average, how many combat phases do you usually get in a well managed turn?

One final thing, in the planning window supporting artillery is crossed over by a red cross. Do they still support and if I click on them to remove the cross, they will attack with full force?

By the way, this turns out to be one heck of a game [:)]

[Monkeys Brain]

Mario, I get your point about moving every unit first. I'm a novice at this game and is still struggling with finding a effective way to micro manage my troops and using the finer points to my advantage. I'm currently playing the Normandy (classic) scenario. There's is not much room to move, so I have to do it in waves like I said in my previous comment. The first attacks to repel the enemy units, move into their position and attack again, and so on.

Ah, I get it now [:D]

On another point, on average, how many combat phases do you usually get in a well managed turn?

I think that I managed more than 10 rounds in some FiTE turns when actually by all means turn has to end but all unit's passed comm and prof. checks.

Every scenario is a different. Some smaller scenario for example - you can play few turns to get a feel of scenario and see how many rounds you will get. Some scenarios will have a lot's turn burns and you will be lucky to get 3 rounds (Operation Blau for example). Scale, and loss tollerance play a part here, maybe some other things.
It is important to get important things done early in the turn so that on last round you already put bomber wings to interdiction for example if they were on combat support (if they need to be put on interdiction), dig in important units and plan those last attacks on important hexes (then you can use ignore losses because you plan to take that hex and unit that will take it will be on ignore losses and will defend much better if there is counter attack).

One final thing, in the planning window supporting artillery is crossed over by a red cross. Do they still support and if I click on them to remove the cross, they will attack with full force?

Yes, that is new in TOAW 3. If they are commited to attack they will attack with full strength. If they are left on tac. support they will attack with half strength. Weapons with range 1 must be put in front lines and put on tactical support. Check also arty tubes, so if there is 80 guns with range 1 and 20 with range 2 then maybe it is better that they are put in front line and on tac. support as those tubes will not fire anyway on targets 2 hex distant.

By the way, this turns out to be one heck of a game [:)]

I agree, I am playing TOAW since 1998. so some 6 computers later TOAW is still on hard drive... Must be some magic charm [:D]


Mario

[rocketman71]

Mario, happy 10th anniversary playing TOAW [X(], sure sounds like great value for the money spent!

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this FiTE that I come across a lot on these pages?

If I understand correctly, I need to put artillery on "T" in order for it to appear in attack planning window without the red cross?

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy

Mario, happy 10th anniversary playing TOAW [X(], sure sounds like great value for the money spent!

Pardon my ignorance, but what is this FiTE that I come across a lot on these pages?

If I understand correctly, I need to put artillery on "T" in order for it to appear in attack planning window without the red cross?

Thanks [:D]

FiTE is Fire in the East, one of best East Front scenarios.

Yes, you are right you need it to put it on tactical support to not get red cross in attack planning window. I guess that they put this as some kind of warning to not forget assigning artillery.


Mario

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy

Thanks for the reply Curtis. So that I don't confuse terminology - combat rounds are what the manual refers to as tactical rounds (10 total) and combat phase is the current set of planned attacks (before pressing the flag button to proceed)?

Correct.

Could one summerize the procedure of using your turn to the fullest (in a crude way), as: move as little as possible and conduct vital attacks, then move as little as possible and conduct some more attacks, then repeat this process as many time as possible?

As Mario has already stated, move your units as far as they can each time, then plan attacks only with the ones that still have the desired fraction of their movement allowance remaining. Those will usually be the ones that didn't move. Units that have expended much more of their turn than the current phase don't impact attack round expenditure unless you add them to an attack.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
Yes, you are right you need it to put it on tactical support to not get red cross in attack planning window. I guess that they put this as some kind of warning to not forget assigning artillery.

Correct. It's a new feature, just added. Before, artillery in mobile deployment would not appear in the attack planning window at all, even if in range. Now, they show up, but with a red X over them, indicating that they will not support in that deployment, but could be added.

[Curtis Lemay]

I'll just repeat here that my Detailed AAR of the first turn for "France 1944 D-Day" goes into round management in some detail. You might want to take a look:

tm.asp?m=1546619

[rocketman71]

Thank you for the reminder Curtis, I had a look at it a while ago (looks awesome), but decided to play the scenario named "Normandy" which is in the classics folder. I might have a go at your scenario at a later stage.

[rocketman71]

Since my last post I've been reading some old posts and it seems as though some more experienced players think that the attack planning window is pretty much useless. I can't imagine not using it at this stage of being a novice. They seem to think that the losses expected and success expected is more or less inaccurate? Is this so? Maybe one should only use it for setting up the attack, rather than a tool for evaluating the probable success.

I played a few more rounds in my scenario and suffered a bad case of turn burn, while taking care of setting battles up according to the discussion above. What I think might be the case is that I'm adding units to achieve great results with minimum losses. I guess this makes it a more complicated battle and therefore has a tendency to drag on and burn more of the turn. That and/or the enemy using the highest loss tolerance.

[Karri]

Regarding the expected results, yes it is pretty much useless. I never look at those. I use it simply to see that the attack doesn't use too many rounds...can't stop turn burns or early turn endings though.

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy

Since my last post I've been reading some old posts and it seems as though some more experienced players think that the attack planning window is pretty much useless. I can't imagine not using it at this stage of being a novice. They seem to think that the losses expected and success expected is more or less inaccurate? Is this so? Maybe one should only use it for setting up the attack, rather than a tool for evaluating the probable success.

I played a few more rounds in my scenario and suffered a bad case of turn burn, while taking care of setting battles up according to the discussion above. What I think might be the case is that I'm adding units to achieve great results with minimum losses. I guess this makes it a more complicated battle and therefore has a tendency to drag on and burn more of the turn. That and/or the enemy using the highest loss tolerance.

Be careful with units with VERY high proficiency like 90%.

Imagine Hitler Youth and Hitler yelling at them ATTACK! [:D]

They keep attacking and burn the turn (esp. if their losses is not big).


Mario

[rocketman71]

I like your analogy [:D], it clarifies the whole deal with units fighting untill the bitter end (of the turn...).

[Monkeys Brain]

ORIGINAL: rocketboy


I like your analogy [:D], it clarifies the whole deal with units fighting untill the bitter end (of the turn...).

You'll love this game [:D]
Maybe it is more than a game [:)]

[L`zard]

ORIGINAL: Monkeys Brain
You'll love this game [:D]
Maybe it is more than a game [:)]

Right ON, Mario!

"The First Church of the Holy ToaW, Evangilist", LOL!

I like it!

[:D][:D][:D]

[Monkeys Brain]

Right ON, Mario!

"The First Church of the Holy ToaW, Evangilist", LOL!

I like it!

[:D][:D][:D]

LOL

Well, you know that you are TOAW addicted when you find yourself loading end turn situation and mumbling "how beautyful is this tank" hehe and don't even notice new mumbo jumbo latest game with breathtaking graphics [:D]


Mario