A Question About Commands

[Redleg]

If any unit issues a withdraw command, it is applied to all units in the platoon. So it is necessary to go through the platoon and undo the extra withdraw orders, leaving the one intended in place.

The question is "Is this intended?".

If an advancing Platoon finishes executing that command, it may not have the opportunity to engage an enemy if the Platoon Leader is out of LOS of an enemy. A work around is to have the platoon target bare ground (or almost anything). This will pass a target command to the rest of the platoon who can then target the bad guys. Then the Platoon leader can either fire at the "phoney" target or the target can be cancelled.

Sometimes I will have the platoon leader fire an area mission as close as possible to the other target but that is merely to get a fire order dispensed to all of my squads.

Question. Is gamey or can I learn how this command is supposed to work? Can the AI fathom all of this sort of stuff?

[WhiteOwl]

Hi Redleg,

I may be misunderstanding your question, but if you use Engage->Move, or Engage->Face for the platoon leader, you can issue Engage->Target for the other squads. Will this not give you the behaviour you want without "false targetting"?

Cheers

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Redleg
If any unit issues a withdraw command, it is applied to all units in the platoon. So it is necessary to go through the platoon and undo the extra withdraw orders, leaving the one intended in place.

If you mean the base platoon Withdraw order, then yes.

If an advancing Platoon finishes executing that command, it may not have the opportunity to engage an enemy if the Platoon Leader is out of LOS of an enemy. A work around is to have the platoon target bare ground (or almost anything). This will pass a target command to the rest of the platoon who can then target the bad guys. Then the Platoon leader can either fire at the "phoney" target or the target can be cancelled.

The platoon leader's LOS should have no effect on the rest of the platoon - each unit spots and targets individually. Under Advance orders, the most important thing to keep in mind (especially for vehicles) is that since they are moving their line of sight will be in a much more limited arc so they may not be seeing something that's out of their front 90 degree arc. This goes double for Assault Guns with no turrets that can't advance in one direction and shoot in another so they have a very limited (about 30 degree) front fire arc while Advancing.

Sometimes I will have the platoon leader fire an area mission as close as possible to the other target but that is merely to get a fire order dispensed to all of my squads.

I'm not sure I see why this is necessary. Can you be a bit more specific on the situation that seemed to require this?

[Redleg]

OK, some of this is hard to explain.  Here goes.

I approach the enemy with a platoon of 5 T60 tanks.  I think there is a mismatch ahead and decide to WITHDRAW one of the T60s that is not the platoon commander to safer ground.  Now an attempt to move the other 4 tanks (including the command squad) all tanks have been issued a withdraw order by the subordinate tank.  So unless I remember to check each tank for an uncalled for WITHDRAW order, the entire platoon begins to execute the command.  So if any of the 5 tanks attempts to withdraw, all tanks do so and must be reset or loose a turn. This is like a panic sets in across the entire platoon including the lead squad.

Question is, "should any of the 5 tanks be able to order the entire platoon to withdraw?"

A similar sort of thing occurs with platoon order to face.  If the platoon commander orders the entire platoon to face in a certain direction such as to face a threat, then only the platoon commander's tank will face and I must micro-manage the direction of each tank in the platoon.  This is the reverse of the first example.

Trouble is, I have to remember that the withdraw command works one way and the face command works the other.  Seems to me that the Platoon Commander's order should apply to the entire platoon.

As I say, it isn't a lot of trouble except I have forgotten the difference one time my entire platoon withdraw up back up the hill I just left seeking cover.  4 of the five tanks were safely in a gully, the 5th tank ordered the entire platoon back up the hill.

With the facing movement example the worst is that I waste a turn expecting the platoon to be ready to fire with front armor facing the threat the next turn.

Personally, I would like platoon commands to apply to all tanks in the platoon and individual orders apply to only that subordinate tank which is what happens with most orders.

Sometimes I am advancing toward the enemy with a platoon. Since I take care to not lose my platoon leader, sometimes all squads except the platoon leader have a LOS to the foe but because the platoon leader cannot see the enemy, none of the units can fire because the leader is cannot see the target. Choices are very limited. This is a tough spot for the Soviet commanders.

What I have found is that when the other squads cannot target, that if I direct the platoon leader to area fire, this triggers an "alert" to the other members of the platoon who can now be directed to fire directly at the target or issue separate area fire commands AFTER the platoon command sets his target.

I will watch for this to happen and note in detail exactly what occurs. It happens often.
Hope this is more clear. 

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Redleg
I approach the enemy with a platoon of 5 T60 tanks.  I think there is a mismatch ahead and decide to WITHDRAW one of the T60s that is not the platoon commander to safer ground.  Now an attempt to move the other 4 tanks (including the command squad) all tanks have been issued a withdraw order by the subordinate tank.  So unless I remember to check each tank for an uncalled for WITHDRAW order, the entire platoon begins to execute the command.  So if any of the 5 tanks attempts to withdraw, all tanks do so and must be reset or loose a turn.

Was this a Withdraw Reaction Order then?

Trouble is, I have to remember that the withdraw command works one way and the face command works the other.  Seems to me that the Platoon Commander's order should apply to the entire platoon.

It's a good point - I thought all reaction orders were limited to individual squads/vehicles only though, so _by design_ it sounds like the Withdraw order is the problem rather than the rest.

Regards,

- Erik

[thewood1]

Ah, that is one of the exact issues I have been having with the withdraw order.  I thought reaction was supposed to be individual, but it didn'tseem to working that way.

[Redleg]

Egads, Erik.  You are faster to respond than a speeding bullet.  Thanks for the response.
 
Another question if you please.... how can I "activate" some of the unused units such as Russion Pioneers.  The data seems to be there ready to roll but these units seem to need me to do something to get them recognized.
Maybe I can get some Russian Pioneers going to counter the German Engineers.
 
I was able to activate the 12.7mm section by exchanging the Maxim 7.92 for the biggie.  The 12.7 and the US .50 cal were both originally intended to be anti-tank guns until armor thickness increased so rapidly.  Still very formidable against H/Ts, trucks, and some light tanks.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Redleg
Another question if you please.... how can I "activate" some of the unused units such as Russion Pioneers.  The data seems to be there ready to roll but these units seem to need me to do something to get them recognized.
Maybe I can get some Russian Pioneers going to counter the German Engineers.

I'll take a look - what units exactly would you like added to the potental OOB? We'll reseach them and get them into a future update most likely.

Regards,

- Erik

[Capitaine]

Yes, the reaction withdrawal order is applied to all units in the platoon.  At least as of the latest patch (I also have a sense that it wasn't this way in ver. 1.0).

[Redleg]

I added the 12.7mm HMG to my OOB - it seems to work ok.

Just now finished putting in Soviet Pioneers for 41 through 45 but they need testing.
It took me a while to figure out how to get it into the Presets and working right. Now I need to test, test, test. I gave the Pioneers Rifles with DP LMG, RPG 41 or RPG 43, and smoke rounds. These Pioneers are added to the Soviet Infantry Battalion.

Also gave Guards units RPGs (HE grenades) and smoke to see how that works out.

Now I will have to play at difficult levels to compensate for the increased power of the Russian grunt units..... and test, test, test. Probably will do a second "clean install".

Considering doing something with Soviet Airborne since they did some small airborne ops before they were thrown into the gristmill for shock troops.

I think Partisans will need darkness and/or thick forests to work out ok. So I am not considering Partisans for now.

Having fun with this game.

Redleg

[Erik Rutins]

Interesting - let me know how it works out. You can also post these in the Mod forum if you want some help or advice.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Redleg
I gave the Pioneers Rifles with DP LMG, RPG 41 or RPG 43, and smoke rounds. These Pioneers are added to the Soviet Infantry Battalion.

Do you mean you gave the Pioneers the gun type of "Rifles w/DP LMG" or did you gave them a DP LMG?

Do you have any refernce for the Guards having smoke grenades?

[Redleg]

I did the "Rifles with DP LMG" similar to other units in the game.
 
No reference about smoke grenades per se.  I gave them to the Soviets as a counter to the Germans having too many.  I'll probably go back and remove a lot of smoke grenades later on.  The things I read lead me to believe that tactical use of smoke grenades was very limited in WW2.  I applaud this game for limiting the number of smoke rounds but I think I will remove many smoke grenades from units.
 
It is fun to mess around with the weaponry.
 
 

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Redleg
I did the "Rifles with DP LMG" similar to other units in the game.
No reference about smoke grenades per se.  I gave them to the Soviets as a counter to the Germans having too many.  I'll probably go back and remove a lot of smoke grenades later on.  The things I read lead me to believe that tactical use of smoke grenades was very limited in WW2.  I applaud this game for limiting the number of smoke rounds but I think I will remove many smoke grenades from units.
It is fun to mess around with the weaponry.

The reason I ask is that the smoke grenades for the Russian sniper units were added only after we found a site with pictures of Soviet sniper equipment. And that showed smoke grenades being a part. So if you find something like that let Erik know as it will help perfect the game.[:)]

[thewood1]

I've been playing the heck out of PCK and keep running into situations like this:
 
I have one of my three P4s stunned while under engage orders.  Its HQ and platoon mate continue on for about 50m.  I left it for a turn to get unstunned.  In the mean time I had the othe P4s continue to move to get into a good position and I set up targets for them.  I had to manually target because they both were pummeling a couple of helpless ACs while SU76s were firing on them.  Now the first P4 is unstunned.  How do I get it to move up about 100m to join its mates with out screwing up the targeting or having to issue commands to the HQ and then cancel them for the other P4s.  I tried regroup a couple times, but it puts the rest of the platoon out of position.
 
This probably happens once or twice a game at minimum to me with both AFVs and infantry.  Sometimes its because of pinning, sometimes stuns, and sometimes because I am trying to target something that only one unit can see and I have the others in the platoon move on.  I have ignored it with lesser units, but the P4s are what this scenario hinges on.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: thewood1
I have one of my three P4s stunned while under engage orders.  Its HQ and platoon mate continue on for about 50m.  I left it for a turn to get unstunned.  In the mean time I had the othe P4s continue to move to get into a good position and I set up targets for them.  I had to manually target because they both were pummeling a couple of helpless ACs while SU76s were firing on them.  Now the first P4 is unstunned.  How do I get it to move up about 100m to join its mates with out screwing up the targeting or having to issue commands to the HQ and then cancel them for the other P4s.  I tried regroup a couple times, but it puts the rest of the platoon out of position.

Assuming the platoon is in Engage orders, since you targeted them yourself, I would issue Engage -> Move to the lagging unit. That should not give movement paths to those already in Engage -> Target.

Regards,

- Erik

[thewood1]

Fuuny, when I click on it.  The one I am thinking of won't let me do it.  Maybe it is still stunned.  I'll check.

[thewood1]

I see whats happening now.  I am getting the orders and reaction phases confused.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: thewood1
I see whats happening now.  I am getting the orders and reaction phases confused.

Aha, that'll do it. Yes, you won't be able to move it up in the Reaction phase, but wait 40 seconds and it should be fine.

[thewood1]

I am also starting figur out how to move AFVs with a little more independence.  Make sure I am right here:  I have my P4 HQ halt order.  I gave the two subordinate P4s different engage/move orders.  I went back to the HQ and gave it its move order.  This left the other P4s' order alone.  Is that the correct sequence?
 
Now I want the P4s to automatically halt when it sees the SU76s and engage them.  Once destroyed or out of LOS, I want them to move on to the final destination.  Should I have used defend/move instead, because under engage, they fired on the move.  Most tanks crews halted to fire in WW2, except in emergencies.