Question on Order - sub-orders

[rickier65]

I was wondering if someone could give the rationale for not allowing Targeting as a sub-order from the Defend order.

Let me explain. I re-read the manual on orders, and thought maybe I was making too much use of the Engage order (I seem to use it quite a lot - maybe 75-80% of orders I give are Engage - most of the rest of orders I give are bound). So I decided to make a consious effort to try out different orders -

I engage moved one platoon into a woodline, then set them on Defend, While I moved another platoon up. But I wanted the platoon in the woodline to proved covering area fire on some suspected enemy locations, but I see that I cant target from Defend posture.

Apparetnly Defend posture give best sighting capability for a unit, but its at the expense of being able to target area fire.? It seems like I should be able to target area fire from defend unelss that's the "price" of improved sighting is that the unit isn't busy shooting so it can look for targets better?

Mmm - maybe that makes sense.

I'm liking this game quite a lot.

Rick

[Mobius]

I don't think a Defend gives better sighting capabilities.  You have to halt your Move>Engage units and they will sight just as well.  I think the difference Defend and Engage is that the AI sets the targets from the get-go.  For Engage the AI takes over after the unit has eliminated its target.
 
Also, in the Reaction Phase I believe you can target while being in Defend mode.  That lets you get out of Defend>Hold>All Fire and not have to wait for new orders to spring an ambush.

[rickier65]

Ah, ok, I was just going by the narrative in the manual (p.36) "....units on Defend orders spot at their maximum capability". But after seeing your post, I looked at the sighting rules, and didn't see any modifiers for being in defend stance.

That makes it look like the only useful purpose of defend is to set up and ambush. Otherwise an Engage --> Hold, works fine.


OK thanks,
Rick

[NefariousKoel]

It seems to me that the Defend orders are for holding their fire until something shoots at them. So, even if your Defending unit has an Average or better chance of hitting an enemy unit, it will hold it's fire unless it's fired on. That helps keep it's concealment, especially for infantry. Maybe the mention of sighting on Defend orders was supposed to mean that it's generally more difficult for an enemy to sight one on Defend since it's not firing much.

I've been using Defend orders mostly for my Infantry in cover who are taking fire after moving or who are, as you said, waiting in ambush. It helps hide them.

[Erik Rutins]

Ok, the Defend order is setup to allow you to prepare for a fight with the Facing and slow Move orders as well as the Hold Fire sub-orders. It gives your men their full firepower and it lets you set the conditions under which they open fire, but it doesn't allow you to direct each individual squad's fire (they auto-target). The Engage order allows you to direct squad fire individually.

Defend is also the most flexible order to be in when it comes to Order delays for the Soviets as they can switch away from Defend wth a 20 second delay rather than a 40 second delay.

What I usually do is use Defend to set up my troops exactly how I want them before combat has actually started. If the fighting starts and things are going well, I leave them on Defend. If I need to intervene, I switch them to Engage so that I can direct or concentrate fire.

As long as they are on Defend though, if the entire platoon isn't immediately spotted and engaged, you can have one part firing while the other part is still Holding Fire, which is useful in some tactical situations. Engage doesn't offer you the same choice.

Regards,

- Erik

[thewood1]

That is a good explanation.  I missed that in the manual.

[rickier65]

OK - thanks Erik.

I think I need to start finding a place to collect all of these things I'm picking up so I dont loose them in a few weeks.

Thanks!
Rick