Big B 1.4 NO Vietnam Divisions Problem

[John 3rd]

There has been a Thread running in the general Forum over this topic. Dan invaded Indochina nearly 3 weeks ago and I have not seen my 4 Infantry Divisions.

I am copying and pasting the last note so you understand:

You won't find them in the Editor - in any stock scenario (15 or 16).
I believe (as demonstrated below) they are Hard Coded.

John - at this point I think you ought to post the question in the Tech Support Section.
It may be that they don't show up after 1942 as was posted above, but either way I think it is a question that should be answered by the Matrix Pro's.

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

They are the 1-4 VM Divisions ... 1980,1981,1982,1983 (they are reserved in the DB)

It is my impression that they are hard coded, and not represented in the DB ...

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

There has been a Thread running in the general Forum over this topic. Dan invaded Indochina nearly 3 weeks ago and I have not seen my 4 Infantry Divisions.

I am copying and pasting the last note so you understand:

You won't find them in the Editor - in any stock scenario (15 or 16).
I believe (as demonstrated below) they are Hard Coded.

John - at this point I think you ought to post the question in the Tech Support Section.
It may be that they don't show up after 1942 as was posted above, but either way I think it is a question that should be answered by the Matrix Pro's.

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

They are the 1-4 VM Divisions ... 1980,1981,1982,1983 (they are reserved in the DB)

It is my impression that they are hard coded, and not represented in the DB ...

This one is beyond me, so maybe Joe W. can answer it.

[John 3rd]

Joe???
 

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Joe???

Well, I'm certainly not Joe, but I can answer your question: They only appear if triggered in 1941/42 (I only know about this because the question arose during work on the AE).

[John 3rd]

So--since it is 1943--I DON'T GET THEM??!!  That is nuts.  Say it ain't so...
 

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

So--since it is 1943--I DON'T GET THEM??!!  That is nuts.  Say it ain't so...

It's so....rejoice though in this thought; let him take Haiphong...then there is an Allied base in trigger range for Kamikaze enablement. Evidently, the huge threat scares the program into thinking the inner defense line is breached and it allows you to start converting squadrons to this role..

[John 3rd]

THAT helps so much...
 
I am not ready for that step--though it would shock the heck out of Dan--yet.
 

[Canoerebel]

Yes, it would be a shock since the Allies can't trigger kamikazes until January 1, 1944.
 
I think, though, that my troops near Rangoon and Pisanoluke are close enough to Saigon to trigger kamikazes.  IIRC, proximity to Saigon, Takao, and Tokyo are the three things that can trigger Divine Wind implementation.
 
John, I had no idea that the Vietnamese divisions weren't available after '42.

[John 3rd]

It makes no sense whatsoever!  I wouldn't have made Hanoi look weak if I knew that.  I had kept about 6-8 units at Hue and Saigon hoping to entice your movement so I could pick up four new Infantry Divisions.  What a STUPID rule...
 

[tabpub]

Yes, it would be a shock since the Allies can't trigger kamikazes until January 1, 1944.

I think, though, that my troops near Rangoon and Pisanoluke are close enough to Saigon to trigger kamikazes. IIRC, proximity to Saigon, Takao, and Tokyo are the three things that can trigger Divine Wind implementation.

John, I had no idea that the Vietnamese divisions weren't available after '42.

Ah, but when the 1st of Jan '44 rolls around...that's a lot earlier than Oct '44; could be some 300 Kami Squadrons difference or so....
Nope; Rangoon won't cut it and Pisanwhatever won't either; 15 hexes traced by sea only.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It makes no sense whatsoever!  I wouldn't have made Hanoi look weak if I knew that.  I had kept about 6-8 units at Hue and Saigon hoping to entice your movement so I could pick up four new Infantry Divisions.  What a STUPID rule...

It makes sense; to me at least. It's there to provide support in the early years; by 1943, the IJA should have pushed the Chinese around enough to not let them think of Vietnam as a target. Actually, I think the Viet Minh started up their guerrilla campaign vs. the Japanese round about 1943; perhaps a garrison rule in Vietnam after Jan '43 would be more appropriate.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: tabpub

It makes sense; to me at least. It's there to provide support in the early years; by 1943, the IJA should have pushed the Chinese around enough to not let them think of Vietnam as a target. Actually, I think the Viet Minh started up their guerrilla campaign vs. the Japanese round about 1943; perhaps a garrison rule in Vietnam after Jan '43 would be more appropriate.

The Japanese always kept sizeable troop contingents in Northern Vietnam, both to keep the Vichy French forces honest and to counter any possible Chinese attack (in December 1941 21st Independent Mixed Brigade and 4th Mixed Regiment, 1942-45 21st Division).

[Canoerebel]

Since the Allies have a port in China (Pakhoi) - at least on AB's extended map - within fifteen hexes of both Takao and Saigon, the Japs will usually qualify for kamikazes on 1/1/44.

[John 3rd]

Dan looked in the rulebook and found no END date regarding getting these reinforcements.  It SUCKS...
 

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan looked in the rulebook and found no END date regarding getting these reinforcements. It SUCKS...

Well John, what ever the case is - the slots where they reside (1980-1984) are hard coded as you can see in the screen print below.
I think it may have been wise to put an explanation in the rule book - but there we have it.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It SUCKS...

I've looked at the relevant code - at least for one pass through it ... I do not see any dates ... I see ... essentially ... ALlied units in certain hexes .. generates build of 4 units ....

So ... perhaps the question is .. how was VN invaded? Perhaps "Dan-Yet" .. found a way to invade VN without entering the hexes that trigger the 4 unit build.

[Uamaga]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It SUCKS...

I've looked at the relevant code - at least for one pass through it ... I do not see any dates ... I see ... essentially ... ALlied units in certain hexes .. generates build of 4 units ....

So ... perhaps the question is .. how was VN invaded? Perhaps "Dan-Yet" .. found a way to invade VN without entering the hexes that trigger the 4 unit build.

Not trying to be shameless [X(] but (afaict) year check seems to be in lower level then the place where the hex-trigger condition is evaluated. It's in the place where divisions are actually placed on map and where their starting composition is determined.

Well, to rise my stake from "it seems" to "I'm sure" (almost, as there's is always place for almost - sometimes in Apocalypto sense [:)]) i made a test case. Starting from stock 15 in one editor I changed start date to 25 DEC 42, and in another one moved a few Chinese Corps on the border hex on the road to Hanoi (but no march orders). Then I played it in hotseat mode (I also removed few orders for japanese TFs just to make turn go in speedy way) In one run I let Chinese march at once, they crossed the border after second day and triggered instant militia mobilisation. In second run waiting few days they crossed in Jan 1943 at there was no Vietnam milita. So I'm now "Almost"... [:D]

That said it indeed may be a way to go to Hanoi in 42 in sneaky way. For a sake of japan player I hope however that it would be long, risky way with not much supply on the road...?

[John 3rd]

So there is some sort of code issue that prevents the Vietnamese from coming in after 1943.  I repeat--THAT SUCKS and makes no sense to this player.  Those troops are available Dec 31, 1942 but not January 1, 1943?  This is something that should be addressed.
 
Dan checked the rulebook and found no dates mentioned within it.  Certainly should be something there if this is the actual case.
 
 

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

So there is some sort of code issue that prevents the Vietnamese from coming in after 1943.  I repeat--THAT SUCKS and makes no sense to this player.  Those troops are available Dec 31, 1942 but not January 1, 1943?  This is something that should be addressed.

Dan checked the rulebook and found no dates mentioned within it.  Certainly should be something there if this is the actual case.

With this game's occasional goofyness, I try to find an historical reason to account for the things that "suck". In this instance, I'd argue that by 1943, the luster of the Japanese "liberation" has worn off and the Vietnamese are probably not all that keen on supporting them with soldiers any longer.

[John 3rd]

If one goes by that rationale then the Vietnamese would FLOCK to the banner of the Japanese over a CHINESE invasion.  I think their enmity goes back a lot longer...

[Big B]

No no - the Chinese are just 'liberating' them from Japanese 'liberation' [:D]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

If one goes by that rationale then the Vietnamese would FLOCK to the banner of the Japanese over a CHINESE invasion. I think their enmity goes back a lot longer...