Broken Land Movement

[DesertedFox]

Okay the rules as I understand them are,

Units that begin a turn in an enemy occupied hex may only set a DH that is a friendly
base/beach hex, and only if a valid supply path can be traced from the unit to the base/beach hex.
To order a ground unit to move to a specific hex, the path of the move must generate a supply
path value of no more than 900 using these costs per hex to be moved:
�� Rail/Highway: 2
�� Road: 5
�� Trail: 25
�� Cross Country: 50
For example a unit cannot be ordered to move more than 18 hexes cross country.

Unfortunately my screenshot is too large to upload, but all of the above are covered but my units will not move, and yes I have them moving to a base I own, free of enemy units within range. My unts are currenly in a hex with enemy units.

[Charbroiled]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Okay the rules as I understand them are,

Units that begin a turn in an enemy occupied hex may only set a DH that is a friendly
base/beach hex, and only if a valid supply path can be traced from the unit to the base/beach hex.
To order a ground unit to move to a specific hex, the path of the move must generate a supply
path value of no more than 900 using these costs per hex to be moved:
�� Rail/Highway: 2
�� Road: 5
�� Trail: 25
�� Cross Country: 50
For example a unit cannot be ordered to move more than 18 hexes cross country.

Unfortunately my screenshot is too large to upload, but all of the above are covered but my units will not move, and yes I have them moving to a base I own, free of enemy units within range. My unts are currenly in a hex with enemy units.

If you pick a hex (non-base/beach) and the enemy bombards you, then your movement orders will be canceled.

If you pick a hex (base/beach), but do not pick on the flag symbol, and the enemy bombards you, then your movement orders will be canceled.

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

If you pick a hex (base/beach), but do not pick on the flag symbol, and the enemy bombards you, then your movement orders will be canceled.

Wow I never knew that. I sometimes wondered why my movement orders were cancelled. Must be more precise with my mouse clicks in future.

always learning something new [;)]

[rtrapasso]

If you are Chinese (and possibly even other nationalities) - if an enemy unit moves into your hex and you have not been ordered to a base hex, then your movement will be reset (they don't even have to attack)...

In prior versions of the game, the units will even sometimes have movement canceled from air attacks.

Also, be careful as the units can sometimes unpredictably change direction of movement [X(] [&:]

Sometimes units will change movement directions if an enemy unit moves into their path of march, but it can also happen without provocation.

[DesertedFox]

Okay yes, I am being bombarded, but my orders are not cancelled. The initial direction of movement is NE, which is to a hex only I have a unit occupying. However for some reason they get to 59 miles and just sit there, there direction of movement has changed to east, which is a contested hex but the destination hex remains the same.
 
The path to my destination hex has had no changes in terms of enemy blockage etc.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Okay yes, I am being bombarded, but my orders are not cancelled. The initial direction of movement is NE, which is to a hex only I have a unit occupying. However for some reason they get to 59 miles and just sit there, there direction of movement has changed to east, which is a contested hex but the destination hex remains the same.

The path to my destination hex has had no changes in terms of enemy blockage etc.

the infamous 59 mile bug... now, usually this happens when a unit is ordered to make a move, but it is no longer a valid move (for one of various reasons).

If you can show a screen shot of the map in that area we might be able to give more details(press W first so we can see the Zones of Control).

[DesertedFox]

Okay I was finally able to get a shot of the situation under 200kb.





To clairfy this.

I am trying to move out of Rangoon, I am the Allies. I give the order to move to Mague, well within movement range. Initially the orders show a NE movement, good. Then they sit at 59 miles with a E movement, which I cannot move into because that its a contested hex. WTF. Every rule I have read plus the new changes from patches says I can move but I cannot in fact...why?

I havent read all the stuff re AE, but I will not buy it if crap like this isnt fixed.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Deserted Fox

Okay I was finally able to get a shot of the situation under 200kb.





To clairfy this.

I am trying to move out of Rangoon, I am the Allies. I give the order to move to Mague, well within movement range. Initially the orders show a NE movement, good. Then they sit at 59 miles with a E movement, which I cannot move into because that its a contested hex. WTF. Every rule I have read plus the new changes from patches says I can move but I cannot in fact...why?

I havent read all the stuff re AE, but I will not buy it if crap like this isnt fixed.

EDIT:
oops - misread one letter of your post... which entirely changes my reply... [:o]

[rtrapasso]

Let's try this again:

i think originally the road 120 NE of Rangoon and the road immediately to the E were probably not blocked.

i suspect the roadblock to the NE might have come first (stopping movement in that direction) - game automatically shifts movement to the E.

Then road to E is blocked - can not move troops from on ZOC to another, so movement halts at 59 miles.

Possible Solutions: 1. Click your marching orders to order movement to Magwe again - the game might automatically switch directions back to the NE (and you probably keep your 59 miles progress).
2. Try ordering the troops to a different base to get them to march NE - maybe Akyab.
3. Remove one of the roadblocks of Japanese troops - either the one 120 miles NE of the one 60 miles E of Rangoon.

In actuality, if something like this happened IRL - if the Japanese units were strong, the entire force at Rangoon would be doomed... there was no way to get supply lines through 60 miles of jungle without roads (and it was tough even WITH roads.)

The "key" unit is the Japanese LCU 120 NE of Rangoon - how on earth did it get there??[&:]

[DesertedFox]

Thx for your reply rtrapasso,

As I suspected there is nothing in the rules preventing me from moving, there is a bug, which I guess is not going to be fixed.

That Jap unit that is north of my units moved there across the river and I moved another unit across to cut him off.

I agree with your asumption that it is that unit that is preventing me from moving, but why????????? I am not only contesting that hex but am the sole occupant in the hex I want to move to. By the time I can get rid of that jap unit my force in Rangoon will be decimated by the uber bombardment, I am currently loosing 1,000 men a day and I only moved in there because I knew I could move out again if I got into trouble...what a joke.

So this is the best answer I can get, basically the game is broken and live with it.

I have been playing for 5 years but I think could be the final straw for me.

[rtrapasso]

Thx for your reply rtrapasso,

As I suspected there is nothing in the rules preventing me from moving, there is a bug, which I guess is not going to be fixed.

Don't think it is a bug - it seems to be working as designed...

Consider: you order a unit to march NE up a road... after they march (say) 30 miles, they get intel that the road is blocked 90 miles ahead, but the road to the east is open...

They countermarch and then go east (note that the game does not make you do this, it transfers the mileage to another direction.) After marching some distance, the road to the east is blocked... no more orders have come through from HQ... what to do?

A human commander would probably keep marching E until he couldn't go any further... it is doubtful he'd jump into the jungle, and anyway, he'd have to countermarch another ~120 miles to do so... so he sits awaiting orders from HQ... (that would be you.) You didn't give any further orders, so there they sit.

As i said, IRL, these units would all be doomed unless the roadblock(s) could be removed. In game terms, they probably are doomed as well unless you remove the roadblocks.

[Andy Mac]

Just looking at the screenshot you would need to clear one of the roadblocks you are in a contested hex and both routes to another friendly base are also cut off by contested bases
 
You would need to make one of those hexes uncontested to be able to move out of Rangoon.

[Rainer]

if crap like this isnt fixed

It doesn't make much sense to ask for help and include a remark like this.
The people trying to help you are not employed nor paid by Matrix. They are your friends (or try to be).

[DesertedFox]

It doesn't make much sense to ask for help and include a remark like this.
The people trying to help you are not employed nor paid by Matrix. They are your friends (or try to be).

Did you bother to read my other post? Its begins with

Thx for your reply rtrapasso

The enitre comment

havent read all the stuff re AE, but I will not buy it if crap like this isnt fixed

is directed at Matrix, not those who actually replied to my request and refers to buying AE not at an individual.

Rstapasso, and Andy Mac, you both say remove the road block, but there is a clear line of march from Rangoon in this order, NE, E, NE and to Meikti E or onto Magwe NE, NW. Both of these lines of March are FREE of enemy troops. We are talking 60 miles of territory wide, but you are saying that it is blocked. I cannot see how and the rules aslo back me up. Please quote the part of the rules that say the route is blocked. The rules say you can march up to 18 hexes cross country, I am only moving 5 hexes total.

How can an enemy unit in a contested hex stop a unit moving into a hex you not only only own, but have garrissoned? This just doesn't make sense, it also doesnt say this in the rules. The rules say I can only march where I have a valid supply path, well I have one.

As i said, IRL, these units would all be doomed unless the roadblock(s) could be removed. In game terms, they probably are doomed as well unless you remove the roadblocks.

Once again, what road block? I have a clear line of march garrissoned with my own troops free of enemy troops.

[DesertedFox]

For Andy Mac,
 
I know the outcome of this already. It appears that the replies given are trying to cover up a situation that is broken, or at least completely wrong. I know nothing will be done by Matrix re this situation.
 
Please save me the effort of reading through the AE forums and tell me straight, is this land movement component of AE the same as WITP?

[DesertedFox]

Its EXTREMELY hard to keep the sarcasmSad to say that, I, although a veteran of 5 years with this game, but hardly a rule or code expert have to find the reason for these units not moving.

From the "Whats New"

If the unit is in a hex with an enemy unit, that unit can only plot to move to a friendly base. Note that the movement may not be executed, if an enemy unit is adjacent, blocking or later blocks the path.

So now we know its the Jap units (adjacent) E of Rangoon which are preventing this movement. As there are NO BLOCKING units, just look at the picture to confirm this.

Okay, so can whomever came up with this rule please explain to me how this makes sense. Yes I would like an offical Martix response.

My units are receiving supply, but cannot move back along that SAME route. Those Jap units E of Rangoon are fully engaged by my units in the same hex.

I cannot wait for this explanation, it should give me good a laugh, goodness knows I need one.




Actually this gets better. I just checked the map with Zones on the hex NW of Rangoon is Allied controlled.So why dont my unitts move along that route that way they are not moving next to any Japs units and still my path is way less than the 18 cross country hexes I am allowed to move to a friendly path.

Its EXTREMELY hard to keep the sarcasm out of my tone as this particular game has been going for three years (real time) and now its looks like it will be abandoned becasue of this.

[DesertedFox]

Just looking at the screenshot you would need to clear one of the roadblocks you are in a contested hex and both routes to another friendly base are also cut off by contested bases

Incorrect Andy. I can trace a valid line of supply, there is no blockage. I gave a valid route above, they are not blocked, its the japs E of Rangoon which appear to be the problem, but doesnt explain why I cant move NW, does it.

To order a ground unit move to a specific hex, the path of the move must generate a positive
supply value to constitute a valid supply path.

I have this, supplies are getting through. How about I drop my Lee Enfields and grab a mule, will that let me move?

This problem is only going to be more prevelant in AE as there will me 50% more land.

Waste of three years gaming is all I can think of now.

[rtrapasso]

Did you TRY to re-order the movement to Magwe again? You have to open up the movement screen - be sure to click on the base part of the hex... until you say if you've done this, it is hard to provide you with more help.

If you want to go complain, go somewhere else - this subforum is for people looking for help.

i believe i have made a probable (or at least possible) explanation for what is happening, and it pretty well would mirror what would happen in real life... the roads are blocked... supplies moving through the jungle are very iffy, and i am surprised if anything at all, let alone anything significant is getting through. The problem is that the direction of movement of the unit has been whipsawed (i think) and that it is awaiting further orders from headquarters as the local commander is confused.



EDIT: As far as the rule book goes - take everything with a large grain of salt... much is outdated, and unfortunately much was wrong to begin with... iirc, ZOC's were not in the game when the rulebook was written.

i'll also point out that this is an OPERATIONAL LEVEL game - you are issuing orders to your commanders, who are responsible for carrying them out. If your commander has a low rating (esp. AGGRESSION and LAND RATING i'm guessing) - he may not fulfill orders like you want or think they should be done.

[DesertedFox]

hi rtrapasso,

I have already sent the turn off as you suggested, yes the 59 mile remain in effect though the movement did change to NE, let see, though I doubt it will work.

I know YOU are trying to help me but some of your suggestions I TOTALLY disagree with. An enemy unit is in a 60 miles hex, fully engaged with my troops. 60 miles away, no enemy, my troops only, supplies are getting through, yes supplies are getting through but you are saying its reasonable to expect some Japs to slip past my troops, walk 60 miles through the jungle and somehow prevent armed troops moving but somehow missing the supply troops. I cannot agree with that.Now you are saying that crossing the jungle is the problem, sorry bro, but that is fantasy as well. if there was a road running from Rangoon NE (which there is already) and them directly East (which there isnt) you say my troops could move? They would not.

I have reread the bit

If the unit is in a hex with an enemy unit, that unit can only plot to move to a friendly base. Note that the movement may not be executed, if an enemy unit is adjacent, blocking or later blocks the path

and so yes that units is adjacent to my path, but that is 60 miles away, the enemy unit is already engaged and I have garrissoned the path. To say its reasonable for this happen is IMHO totally unrealistic.

I appreciate your respones, but this is a support forum, and this situaton is totally fubar, and needs to be addressed. Thus I will complain,

I am not a fly by night WITP player after 5 solid years, this is wrong and sturpid and doesn't make sense. My opponent agrees with me. Are we the only two who can see the stupidity of this situatiuon?

Okay I have one final question to ask and would appreciate a logical respone, why is it my supplies get through but my troops cannot move along the same path?

If I get a common sense reasonable answer to this I will be very surprised.

[DesertedFox]

i'll also point out that this is an OPERATIONAL LEVEL game - you are issuing orders to your commanders, who are responsible for carrying them out. If your commander has a low rating (esp. AGGRESSION and LAND RATING i'm guessing) - he may not fulfill orders like you want or think they should be done.

Sorry bud I have never before seen anywhere it says that land troops given a LAWFUL order of march will fail to do so because of some die roll.