Panzer Command V Theatre of War?

[drizzt73]

Hi all, I am thinking about getting a new game while waiting for WITP AE to come out and am wondering if anyone has played both these games and can give a comparison.
Cheers

[Prince of Eckmühl]

Panzer Command appears to have been strongly influenced by the Combat Mission family of games in that both share the WEGO method of turn sequencing. Because of the map scaling in the game and the attention devoted to armour play, AFV rule the battlefield. This is not to say that the infantry doesn't work. It's just not as much fun, IMHO.

Theatres of War appears similiar to CMSF, also from Battlefront. Both are attractive games that were designed from the ground-up to be played real-time (rather than turns-based). On some level, both games are controversial to the extent that a lot of folks consider them RT "click-fests." While I don't agree with the characterization, I do have to admit that they can get away from you, PDQ, if you have more than a dozen or so units to command.

Armour plays better than infantry in all the games that I cite above. At some point, I believe that a developer can actually screw up a game by trying to pound a game-engine designed to showcase the attributes of armour over kilometer(s)-square maps into one that presents ultra-detailed infantry modeling. The RT games appear to be more culpable in this regard than those from the WEGO genre. Infantry play is an outright failure in ToW, while that fielded by Battlefront struggles mightily in some of the environments to which it is deployed. [;)]

ToW or PCK?

I'd buy PCK.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[helm123456789]

Agree completely with POE's suggestion on which game would be the best purchase for you, and since your a WITP player I assume you want some replayability.  I have TOW and haven't played it in months and consider it a bad purchase.
 
What really kills the RT games IMO is the need to script the AI moves/plans.   I know people will say the victory objectives also script the AI moves/plans, but again IMO it's apples and oranges.  I know the AI is coming after said objective, but I don't want to tell them the direction to come.

[massimorocca]

PC defeats ToW in every fields, but the graphics and sounds. 

[himmelstoss]

ORIGINAL: drizzt73

Hi all, I am thinking about getting a new game while waiting for WITP AE to come out and am wondering if anyone has played both these games and can give a comparison.
Cheers

hi drizzt73,

i have played tow quit a bit, but in the end i must say it is disappointing.

the goods:

- very nice looking
- fun to a certain point of repetition
- very detailed
- good tank and gun ballistics
- interesting mix of rts and turn based game
- cool medal and abilities contribution to your soldiers (makes it kind of a role play element)
- still have not found out why i have not deleted it form my hard drive

the bad;

- very poor support (seems that devs have lost interest and rather work on a tow2)
- no smoke!!!!!
- cant enter buildings!!!!!!
- infantry is useless as they pretty much always get slaughtered and that puts a damper on emotional attachment to your troops
- due to the lack of dynamic campaigns it gets a lil boring after a while as you loose the feel of cohesion.
- battle generator does not work with vista (and thats half the game not working)
- not the best mod-ability
- muliplayer sucks space balls! a(and if the devs would tweak it a lil than it would actually be great, but they dont!)

i could go n a bit more but thats kinda it.

look up the forums at battle front and read some of the comments and com planes it will give you more input.

than again....i still have it on my hard drive and in a starnge way i still like it, lol.


PCK on the other hand is actually my ww2 star game come true and it is constantly worked on and support is stellar.

you can not go wrong with it at all if you like a solid ww2 game unless you are a graphics junkie.

best,

himmel

[JudgeDredd]

ToW is too damned attractive NOT to have.

However, given I have to make a choice or one or the other, it would have to be PC:K. I like ToW very much (and I'm not a big fan of RTS)...and it's damned sexy...but PC:K plays better, I think.

As already said...

• ToW plays in real ime and PC:K plays in WEGO stylie
• ToW looks sexy and PC:K, well not to be too unkind, isn't
• ToW is irritating when you can't understand why your far superior panzer chucks 30 shells at a far inferior tank...all the numbers add to a penetration, and in 30 shots you get nothing...no such issues with PC:K
• ToW gets a mare to use when you are dealing with individual soldiers...PC:K offers platoon size units
• PC:K plays better than ToW

I'm afraid that's all I can throw in. It may sound like I don't like ToW...on the contrary I think it's a great game...it just needs a hell of a lot of patience...something I don't always have which prevents me from playing it every day.

But I think PC:K plays better...I've been a fan of the WEGO system since it was introduced at CM:BO (Combat Mission:Beyond Overlord).

[JudgeDredd]

lol...himmelstoss...exactly how I feel.

[rickier65]

I'd just add two things to the above. I only played (or tried to play) ToW demo. If you want to play on low end machine - ToW won't cut it. PcK on the other hand does, in fact the game PcK plays better than the demo for it's predessor PC:OWS - so they've made it even more suited to low end systems.

Also, I would have to disagree at least a little about infantry. While some of the scenarios are certainly Armor heavy - not all are, and infantry plays a good role in those that aren't dominated by Armor, and the games plays fine with Infantry. (although I've played a few scenarios where infantry didn't really contribute much).

Rick

[Hertston]

Different genres. ToW is an RTS game, albeit a more 'realistic' one than usual, although it's no Close Combat or CM:SF in that regard. PC:K is a wargame.

So it depends on which genre you prefer. If you are a big WitP fan my guess is you would get an awful lot more entertainment out of PC. The ToW demo reflects the game pretty well, though, so no harm in giving it a try.

[drizzt73]

Wow, thanks everyone for your advice. I first saw Theatre of war when it was in development about 2-3 years ago and at the time I was sold on it (mainly due to the graphics) but your comments confirmed my fears about playability/realism.  It looks like PC:K will suit me more.
Another question- is it worth getting Winter Storm?
 
Cheers

[Hertston]

Silly not to in view of the discount. It's more maps, another campaign to play, and all updated to run from within Kharkov with the new features.

[redbear]

well i got the demo of OWS it play fine with the two games you have a better game you can play the scenarios of OWS within PCK with the new feuture of PCK i decide to buy the two games when i gets the money. 

[z1812]

Hi All,

I find ToW entertaining if one uses a very low unit count for games. Using the battle generator, which is reasonably easy to understand. I make small scenarios with no more than 10 to 15 units per side. This makes it seem more like 3d Close Combat rather than RT Combat Mission. You may pause to give orders. Mind you there is no entry to buildings or smoke to mask your moves.

If I had to make a decision between between PCK or ToW then PCK would have my vote. In my view it has more to offer in terms of flexibility. Buildings can be entered and smoke is available. As it is a wego system, large or small battles can be managed with ease. If you like skinning that is reasonably easy to do. Mods are easily managed and the gameplay makes sense. ( most of the time [;)] ) Also the developer and publisher are very supportive to PCK.

Life is short. Be generous to yourself. Buy both!!!! [:)]

Regards John

[redbear]

well i was thinking to let it go but i think is better to put some opinion here about TOW also i have seen the opinion z1812 that he was disapointed with the game i see now he change his mind so here i go

I see some mistaken belived here

1 TOW is a simulation not an RTS game. The ballistic and the damage model here are super even better than CM when a tank got penetrated the blast inside it is calculated and it tells you who in the tank survive and who not. Every station in the tank is independent modeled, for example if the driver is killed the tank stop moving similar happen to the gunner stop firing in CM if an tank crew is killed the tank still move just get slow in the action ( you got the indication od casualty within the tank crew but is not focused who was killed) i could not talk about PCK because i dont have it yet but i have OWS and the damage models is not as CM because when you get a penetration there the tank explodes I thinks the damage models is more simple than CM and TOW. I am not saying that PC is a bad game i just think that the damage model could be improved.

2 TWO is not the same as CMSF are two different games are are not from the same company.

The problem with TOW is that this game start as a very special RTS, I said special because with all that physics involve is different from the traditional RTS, I mean those game are not detailed with physics in there is the famous lifebar in top of the unit and mass is all that matter. Then with the guys of battle front the move to a war game but the problem is that the moral aspect of the game is not well modeled that is the problem with TWO the units like to go charging to the enemy positions and you have to baby sit your units not smoke no enter able buildings all was focused on the tanks battle an open field battles no urban battles. So most of the player of CM that pick this game and try to play it as a CM game got a bloody nose me included .

The missions are difficult are not easy but for me are interesting you get conterattacked a so fro the enemy and you have to think in the proper tactics and the units and material you have at hand to win your mission i would say that it is a brain game. Also you can created your own missions with the battle generator as Z1812 do.

I like the game i don't play it all the time but is something different from CM if you like something to make you think this game do Also there is an ADD on in development with smoke enter able buildings and a better AI in that case the game will be alot of interesting and better.

I would say that my vote will go to PCK I will buy it but you could play the demo if you like and see for yourself any way i want to put the things clear here so you can have a better understanding of TOW its beauty and problems.