CAPTURED EQUICMANT

[Japan]

How is Captured Equicmant actualy simulated?


I have noticed in WITP (BIg. B) that some Base Forces and Ships come out with the Swedish Bofosh 40mm AA Gun, this is of course Captured from The Britts I assume...


But, often when i have encerkled and destroyed up to 7 or evan 800 Allied Armored Fighting Vheacles, I dont seme to get any Armor Regiments as Reinforcements formed with this Vheacles... nor do i seme to get them as replasements into my already existing regimets ??

I know all games, or strategy simulations as i prefere to call WITP... has its limitations..
But using Captured Equicmant was of course very very common in WW2, can this, or is this simulated in AE?

[Andy Mac]

No out of scope also to little utility for to much effort

[JeffroK]

Apart from a small number of Stuart I Light tanks and 25pdr Gun/Hows used by the japanese in Burma I dont recall many occasions where enemy equipment was used in the Pacific.
 
It was a bit more common in Europe & Nth Africa.

[mlees]

Repair and replacement of the (captured) gear would be problematic, wouldn't it?
 
IIRC, captured gear was either used on an emergency/ad hoc basis, or taken back to the rear areas for test & evaluation (and not available for battlefield use).
 
Hmmm. An exeption might be large gun emplacements, like those at Singapore. What, historically, happened to the big guns at Singapore, and Corregidor?

[Rainer]

The guns of Singapore were installed at Tarawa by the Japanese.

[Historiker]

Every nation in WW2 used all kinds of captured equipment, so it should be in the game as well.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: mlees

Repair and replacement of the (captured) gear would be problematic, wouldn't it?

IIRC, captured gear was either used on an emergency/ad hoc basis, or taken back to the rear areas for test & evaluation (and not available for battlefield use).

Hmmm. An exeption might be large gun emplacements, like those at Singapore. What, historically, happened to the big guns at Singapore, and Corregidor?

The coastal guns at Singapore were blown up by the Royal Engineers before Percival surrendered.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Rainer

The guns of Singapore were installed at Tarawa by the Japanese.

Not true. Old myth. There were some old (Elswick) 8in guns of British origin at Tarawa but they came not from captured stocks (not really surpring, considering that the coastal defenses of Singapore did not even contain 8in guns) but had either been bought in Britain before the war or had been part of the armament of decomissioned pre-WW1 cruisers.

[Mike Solli]

I read that those 8"ers were purchased by Japan prior to the war.

[Historiker]

How nice would it be to capture equipment *dream*

Just imagine you get a random number between 0 and 30% of all guns, MGs and tanks from every surrendering army. This needn't be taken with a regular unit, but giving it to a CD unit would already be very usefull - and realistic as well...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How nice would it be to capture equipment *dream*

Just imagine you get a random number between 0 and 30% of all guns, MGs and tanks from every surrendering army. This needn't be taken with a regular unit, but giving it to a CD unit would already be very usefull - and realistic as well...

there wouldn´t be a lot of CD guns to capture, normally those guns would have just been blown up. Doesn´t take too much to blow up a gun...

[Historiker]

I know, but you can remember for sure, how much french and russian equipment the wehrmacht captured - and that most of it was used.

Tanks were used for police duty, converted to flamethrowers or disarmed and used as ammunition transport while their turrets were placed at the Atlantikwall, AT-pieces were given to the army or used as SP-Guns like the Marder, artillery was used at the front or again at the Atlantikwall...

If you could (or must) give captured guns to CD units (where they still can be used to shoot at enemy ships and then at landing partys), there's also no problem with the ammunition.
A CD gun doesn't need that much, 300-400 rounds are in most cases enough - and always better than nothing...

[wworld7]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How nice would it be to capture equipment *dream*

Just imagine you get a random number between 0 and 30% of all guns, MGs and tanks from every surrendering army. This needn't be taken with a regular unit, but giving it to a CD unit would already be very usefull - and realistic as well...

I have better dreams for WITP-AE than this and most of them won't make it in either.

[mlees]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Every nation in WW2 used all kinds of captured equipment, so it should be in the game as well.

Not in great numbers, I don't think, and generally only in desperate times. As I pointed out, resupply of parts (or sometimes ammo) to keep them functioning beyond a couple months would be very unlikely.

[mikemike]

ORIGINAL: mlees

Not in great numbers, I don't think, and generally only in desperate times. As I pointed out, resupply of parts (or sometimes ammo) to keep them functioning beyond a couple months would be very unlikely.

This is certainly true for the PTO and for the Allies in all other theatres. But the Wehrmacht used large amounts of captured equipnemt: the majority of artillery pieces in the Atlantikwall were captured French guns, several hundred of the captured Soviet 76,2 mm field guns were converted to AT guns, the divisional artillery of one of the Afrikakorps divisions at one point consisted entirely of captured Soviet and British guns, strength returns from February, 1945 still show 414 Soviet 76,2 mm AA guns in use with the Luftwaffe, etc, etc. In these cases, enough ammunition was captured to ensure continued use, or suitable ammunition was even manufactured to keep the guns in service.

[Onime No Kyo]

Please disregard.

[bradfordkay]

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo

Please disregard.

Not again!!

[Japan]

!!!!!

WEST FRONT: 3 Full Divitions of Captured Equciamt, The Troops in those divitions was tho often
'Ost troops' and it was most Romaniens, Hungerians or Bulgerians. Later also VOLKSTURM eliments.

EAST FRONT:  7 Full Divitions of Captured Equciamt, Mostly sent to the Italiens, Hungerians or Bulgerians.

FINLAND: Well, what in the Finnish army wasnt Captured??? Thay had HUUUUGE Quantetyes of Captured Tanks, Guns, Rifles, Granades, Mines and evan Aeroplanes!

REFERENCE - WORLD AT WAR - BY THEMS





Germany had at one point availeble over 2500 Captured Tanks and over 6000 Captured Vheacles.
The Captured Vehacles was mostly used on the Estern Front. A Large Quantety of the Captured Soviet Tanks was used on the Western Front to avoid Freindly Fire, but most of the 'None Soviet' Captured Tanks was used on the Estern Front.
Arround 45% of the Captured tankl was used as front line equicmant, and the remaining 55% was used to supplie spare parts to the tanks functiunal.

Late War, Germany Took the Sovjet 76,2mm Gun and 85mm Gun mounted on the T-34, and removed the Gun and Mounted the Gun on a very simple Plattform, basikly creating a fairly short barrol AT Gun of it, and majorety of those guns saw action on the Gustaf Line.


Germany were able to filed a Kampfgruppe's with Captured Tanks ONLY, this was aproksemetly an armor group of some 957 tanks.  The Captured Chzec T-35 and T38's was also used as STANDARD REPLASEMENTS for the PZII and at one point when Tank Quantety was low, also was used as STANDARD REPLASEMENT for PZIII's. This was not a good deal for the Tank Divitions, as thay could loose 10 PZ III's and get as replasements 10 PZ38'ts... Anyway it was the Standard Policy untill the Tank Production could meat the required quantetyes.

A Total List of Captured Tanks used by Germany is not availeble, But thay used many KV's as well as T26 on the Western Front, and thay sold over 400 Captured Matilas and T26's to Finland.

Thay also used the Tanks for Tecnical Development, as im sure you know, the Panter is basikly a Hevely Modefied T-34.

Here is a list of the Captured types activly used in large quantety on the Estern Front:




CAPTURED TANKS WHO WAS USED ON EAST FRONT

• American M3 Lee
• American M4 Sherman
• British Matilda tank (Pz. 748 (e)
• Czechoslovakian LT vz. 35 (Panzer 35(t))
• Czechoslovakian LT vz. 38 (Panzer 38(t))
• French Tracteur Blindé equipped with leFH 18/40/94 150 or sFH13.
• French Lorraine 37L. 7,5 cm PaK 40/1 auf Panzerjager-Lorraine-S(f)
• French Lorraine 37L. 7,5 cm Pak 40/1 auf Lorraine Schlepper(f) Marder I (Sd.Kfz. 135)
• French Lorraine 37L. 15 cm sFH 13/1 auf Lorraine Schlepper(f) (Sd.Kfz. 135/1)
• French Lorraine 37L. 10,5 cm leFH 18/4 auf Lorraine Schlepper(f) -105 mm
• French Renault FT-17 (Pz. 730 (f)
• French Renault R35 (Pz. 731 (f)
• French Hotchkiss H35 (Pz. 35H 734 (f)
• French Hotchkiss H39 (Pz. 38H 735 (f)
• French FCM 36 Pz. FCM 737 (f)
• French Somua S35 (Pz. 35S 739 (f)
• French Char B1 (Pz. B-2 740 (f)
• Italian Fiat M15/42
• Italian Fiat Semovente 75/18 self propelled gun/tank destroyer
• Soviet T-26 (Pz. 740(r)
• Soviet T-26 PZ-740(r) (7,5-cm Pak 97/98 (f)
• Soviet BT-7 (Pz. 742(r)
• Soviet T-60
• Soviet T-34 (Pz. 747 (r)
• Soviet KV-1 (Pz. 753(r)
• Soviet KV-1 (PZ-750(r) mit 7,5 KwK L/43)

Captured armoured cars

• American M8 Greyhound-(Panzerspaehwagen M8(a)
• British Marmon-Herrington Armoured Car
• British Marmon-Herrington Humber
• British Daimler Dingo Mk 1 (le Pz.Sp.Wg. Mk l 202(e)
• British AEC Dorchester Armoured Bus
• British Universal Carrier (gepanzerter Maschinengewehrtraeger Bren 731 (e)
• British Universal Carrier Gep MG. Trager Br 731(e) modified with 20 mm Flak 38,
• British Universal Carrier 8,8 cm Raketenpanzerbusche 43(with 88 mm Rockets)
• British Universal Carrier Gep MG. Trager Br 731(e) mit PaK 35/36(37 mm Pak 35/36 Cannon)
• Dutch DAF M39 (Pz.Sp.Wg. L202(h)
• French AMD Panhard 178 (Pz.Spaeh. 204(f)
• French AMD Panhard 178 (Pz.Spaeh. 204(f) mit KwK 42
• French Unic P107 leichter Zugkraftwagen U304(f)
• French Unic P107 leichter Schuetzenpanzerwagen U304(f) Sd. Kfz. 250
• French Somua MCG/MCL le.Zgkw. S307(f)
• French Somua MCG/MC mittlerer gepanzerter Zugkraftwagen S303(f)
• French Somua MCG/MC mittlerer Schuetzenpanzerwagen S307(f)
• French Somua MCG/MC SPW S307(f) mit Reihenwerfer
• French Somua MCG/MC 7,5 cm Pak 40 auf m SPW S307(f)
• French Somua MCG/MC 8 cm R-Vielfachwerfer auf m.gep.Zgkw. S303(f)
• French Somua MCG/MC 15-cm Panzerwerfer 42 auf m.gep Zgkw. S303(f) Nebelwerfer 41
• French Renault UE (Infanterieschlepper UE 630(f)
• French Renault UE3,7 cm Pak 36(Sf) auf Infanterieschlepper UE 630(f)
• French Renault UE 28/32 cm Wurfrahmen(Sf) auf Infanterieschlepper UE 630(f)
• French Grosser Funk und Beobachtungpanzer auf Lorraine S(f)
• Italian Autoblinda AB41 (Panzerspaehwagen AB41 201 (i)
• Soviet BA-20 (Panzerspaehwagen BA202(r)
• Soviet BA-6
• Soviet BA-10 (Panzerspaehwagen BA203(r)
• Soviet BA-64 modified with 37 mm Pak 35/36 Cannon
• Swedish Landsverk 180/181

[/align] [/align] [/align] [/align]The Point with this is, that Captured Equicmant was used in large Quantety.[/align] [/align] [/align]The Japanese made 4 Full Regiments of Captured M3, Matilda and Stuert, this Regiments was Called "Light Assult Regiments"[/align](Reference, World at War by Thems)


PS: Regarding the Guns at Singapore, the majorety of them was used by the Japanese after Singapore Fall.
So Happand with many Guns Captured at the Phillepines, as well as the Guns located at KAI TAK (near Hong Kong)

The PSS40 and PSS41 was HIGHLY Appriciated by the Gemrans, as thay had early war huuuuge lacking a sub machine gun, the well known Smeicher was availeble in very few numbers... so the Sovjet PSS40 and PSS41 becomed in some German divition the Standard Sub Machine Gun.


[8D]

[Historiker]

ORIGINAL: mikemike

ORIGINAL: mlees

Not in great numbers, I don't think, and generally only in desperate times. As I pointed out, resupply of parts (or sometimes ammo) to keep them functioning beyond a couple months would be very unlikely.

This is certainly true for the PTO and for the Allies in all other theatres. But the Wehrmacht used large amounts of captured equipnemt: the majority of artillery pieces in the Atlantikwall were captured French guns, several hundred of the captured Soviet 76,2 mm field guns were converted to AT guns, the divisional artillery of one of the Afrikakorps divisions at one point consisted entirely of captured Soviet and British guns, strength returns from February, 1945 still show 414 Soviet 76,2 mm AA guns in use with the Luftwaffe, etc, etc. In these cases, enough ammunition was captured to ensure continued use, or suitable ammunition was even manufactured to keep the guns in service.

The "ratsch-bumm" (7,62cm univeral gun) was also modified to be used with usual 7,5cm german ammunition.

The French used german Panther and Königstiger in large quantities and continued their use even some time after the war.

The Russians used german equipment, both tanks, artillery and aircraft

In Afrika, both sides were equipped in a way that it was hard to identify from the air which one was below - I've read the book "Jagdgeschwader 27" where was told that they attacked a ground force as it was said they were Brits. After the attacks, there came "No, they are Italians" but later it turned out that they really were brits.
Rommel himself used a British Command-car which prevented him from being captured once as he met indian forces which didn't see the cross on the car and let it pass...

I guess we needn't talk about the Finnish and the german allies in southeast europe.

Japan used captured tanks, planes and artillery pieces - as well as they solved sunken ships like the soerabaja (which I would like to see at least in witp2 somewhen)

China also used everything they captured.

Moreover, we needn't talk about infantry weapons. Every side used caputred rifles, SMGs and MGs widly

[Japan]

@Historiker

Sir, WERY GOOD written, you couldn't be more right.

I have personaly visited a huge quantety of Museums in Finland, Germany, Scandinavia and Poland, and there is ALOT of data availeble on Captured Equicmant.

A Interesting Story, is a Matilda Tank i found in a Museum in South East Finland, its a Matilda II? (i think), and it has on one side a Britich Mark, one can see a Soviet Mark Over it, and on the other side it is compleatly Green.

That Tank was Captured by Italien Troops in North Afrika, send to Italy, and used by Italien Troops in Russia, Captured by a Soviet Paratrop Infantry Unit, then recaptured by German Troops outside Kiev, Moved to Warchav for 3 months for repairs and ect.. then sold to Finland,  The Tank was then used by the Finns aigenst the Russiens. The Tank evan has some of its special Desert Filters still, and it has a huge dammage to its forward right courner after a Direct A100 hit.

[:)]