Finished the game on easy.

[hgilmer]

Well, it wasn't pretty, but I ended with a decisive victory for the Union. CSA's points tend to drop fast after Lincoln gets re-elected. I reloaded several times after losing battles because I just did not agree with outcomes, or with the amount of reinforcements they could come up with.

On easy I had Vicksburg over 2 to 1 advantage in troops and almost 4 to 1 in artillery - Richard Taylor against U.S. Grant. Ain't no damn way no actor could have beaten Grant with that OOB.

My thoughts:

1. I seriously think the need for garrisons is way overdone. I had to have 6 units in some places. There should be something like the higher the admin of a general, the lesser amount of units (unless that is already the case - I didn't get a chance to try that out). I owned all of Missouri except I think two swamplands and it said it was a solid Union state and I still had to garrison it. If I had taken those other two regions, would the need to garrison go away? (Which seems weird).

2. There are some regions that you just cannot get into it seems - I had movement of 4 and not in winter and cavalry wouldn't go in. So, it looks like I'll need to bring over an AC, get initiative to try to get in there.

3. I think Union should get more troops from regular recruitment. Heck, it got to the point where my armies under Grant were half artillery, 25% infantry, and 25 cavalry. I had one battle where I had upwards of 600 guns blasting away.

4. Casualties seem really skewed. There were many battles where I outnumbered an opponent, had a better commander, had 3 times or more the artillery, and I would still get more casualties, and when it came to damaged/destroyed, it would really screw me up. I'd have a major win and lose more casualties with the stats I just mentioned.

5. Major/Minor battles. I know there is a formula and everything, but it just seems wrong when Grant has a battle with 50K on either side and 10K casualties on both sides, and it is a minor win and then Sherman has an OOB of 30K vs 30K and gets a major victory. Sometimes neither would get a major victory, but I saw a CSA guy have about 12K vs 12K and about 3K casualties per side and it was called a major victory. That seems wrong to me.

[davekinva]

2. There are some regions that you just cannot get into it seems - I had movement of 4 and not in winter and cavalry wouldn't go in. So, it looks like I'll need to bring over an AC, get initiative to try to get in there.

I ran into that a lot in my first Union game.  Some spots in Arkansas, some in Tennessee-- very frustrating.  I'd like help in that department, too.

5. Major/Minor battles.

I'm not sure about the numbers comparison, but it'd be nice to include locations in that calculation.  A minor win in the middle of nowhere is a minor win; a minor win that knocks the Rebs out of Nashville or Vicksburg is *always* a major win in my book.

[hgilmer]

    I didn't look at the region on many of those.  I guess I could go back to my last saved game (I saved every turn) and check the major battles screen and see if I see any that jump out at me.

[WarHunter]

1. I seriously think the need for garrisons is way overdone. I had to have 6 units in some places. There should be something like the higher the admin of a general, the lesser amount of units (unless that is already the case - I didn't get a chance to try that out). I owned all of Missouri except I think two swamplands and it said it was a solid Union state and I still had to garrison it. If I had taken those other two regions, would the need to garrison go away? (Which seems weird).

 
Thats an interesting idea. Having a "Provost Marshal" based in the state capital that allows for a decrease in the garrison values statewide. I agree as the Union there should be some way to "lessen" the garrison requirments, especially if the state cannot be reached by any Rebel armies or Cavalry.

[Berkut]

Why?

Is there some reason to believe that the Union did not keep significant numbers of troops on garrison duty throughout the war?

I honestly have no idea - do you have a source for the claim that the Union did not?

[WarHunter]

Berkut,
 
Do you have the in game requirments to fully garrison Missouri, Kenkucky, West Virginia and Maryland?
When you look those states over as the Union, you will find a static number needed.
 
I agree with hgilmer, that the current requirements seem large. Maybe they are not, but it is subjective as the Union player faced with the garrison.
 
The word "lessen" does not mean, eliminate. It means to reduce.

[Joel Billings]

My sense is that the Union had a lot of it's manpower tied down in garrisons or logistics duty, especially as the supply lines lengthened. I think the garrisons represent both these items in keeping Union frontline strength down. Numbers in any particular location may be off, but the overall numbers felt right in my opinion.

Victories, be they major or minor have everything to do with the size of the battle and the command rating of the leader involved, and only impact how much the leader is going to gain from the win. A low CR leader will more easily be given a major victory, because relative to where the leader is (in terms of CR), it is a more important victory. Only Strategic Victories matter for PPs or anything more than the impact on the winning leader's command rating.

A junior leader that wins a corps level engagement will get credit for a major victory, while a senior commander will only get credit for a minor for the same battle. Doesn't mean anything but that the junior commander is more likely to see an improvement due to his performance above his pay grade.

As for movement to some areas, it's usually all about the terrain. Getting into a swamp, mountain or forest area without roads (or via transports) is going be nearly impossible, and is intended.

[Berkut]

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Berkut,

Do you have the in game requirments to fully garrison Missouri, Kenkucky, West Virginia and Maryland?
When you look those states over as the Union, you will find a static number needed.

Sure I do:

Missouri: 9 brigaeds
Kentucky: 8 brigades
West Virginia: 2 brigades
Maryland: 6 brigades (2 Baltimore, 4 DC)

25 total brigades. Doesn't seem all that high to me, especially considering most, if not all of them, will be militia.

[PyleDriver]

Good post Berkut, It does show that it's not out of line. The Union had a hard time keeping those raillines open and the population in line. 2000 men x ? is really small concedering how many people lived there...Memphis needs 8000 troops, large city, is that to much? I don't think so.

[8D]
Jon

[WarHunter]

Its purely subjective for anyone to say what is the correct value. If the designers feel it is balanced, so be it. I'll deal with it now as is, and in the future as it will be.
 
Actually the Garrison requirments are 10 for Missouri, 10 for Kenkucy, 6 for Maryland, 2 for West Virginia. 28 total. The total is going to be dealt with as each union player moves forward. Its a surprise to those taking states for the 1st time. Once all partisan values for all states are known, the disscussion will begin anew on if it is to much or not enough.
 
Would i like it to be less? yes, especially in the border states. Southern states, no problem.
Will it be? probably not.
Does it make the game any less playable or enjoyable? no
 

[hgilmer]

    Seems like I needed a lot more than that.  I'll take a look at one of my saved games.

[hgilmer]

    Unless I'm doing something wrong, I'm using 25 garrison right now for Kentucky alone and I don't have all of the regions.  The little red horse means it is in danger of partisan trouble, right?  When I try to move any of those, I'm threatened with partisan trouble.  The largest two are Lexington and Louisville - 5 in Louisville and 4 in Lexington. 10 for Missouri.  You're looking at 35 at that point.  And they all have to be infantry/militia/cavalry.  Sure you can use militia but it is still 35 in two states minimum that could be trained up.  That's a heckuva army especially when you add in all the arty I have that can't take stuff on its own.  I'm not saying that I know historically what the levels needed were, but something is going teribly wrong for me - I have 235 or so infantry type units to CSA's 170 and then you throw in what I consider lopsided casualties, I'm in trouble.  Trouble that historically I don't think was the case.

[PyleDriver]

hgilmer if your having to use that many troops in KY it went CSA. Theres a toggle on the top toolbar (right-center) thats called view nation, it will show you all the garrison requirements needed.

[8D]
Jon

[Berkut]

hgilmer, the little horse shows up if the current move would result in there not being enough garrisons.

So if you are trying to move 6 guys out of a space that needs 1, it will show up.

Try moving the guys one at a time - or just do as Pyle suggests, and you can see exactly what the requirements are.

The hotkye for that, btw, is 'g'. I toggle between 'g' and 'c' to check on what troops can be removed from areas in border states.

[hgilmer]

Oh. Yeah, it went CSA.

Edit: So, you can attack Ky first and still get the state. Well, there went all incentive for me not to attack Ky early. [:D]

[davekinva]

I'm going to need to hunt down a scholarly citation, but from my readings, the garrison requirements during the Civil War were absolutely huge, especially in the West.  IIRC, that's one of the reasons Sherman cut loose to march through Georgia-- something like half his combat power was tied down guarding his supply lines from Kentucky through Tennessee into Georgia.  Moving conventionally through Georgia and the Carolinas would have lengthened his lines even more, so striking out for Savannah appeared far more attractive.

Of course, once he was clear of his lines, that allowed Hood's reconstituted army to march north against what remained of the supply line.  Thomas had to scramble mightily to collect enough forces in a central location to stop Hood.

Anyway, the garrison game is a pain in the butt, I agree.  But it approximates reality.

[PyleDriver]

You are allowed to leave regions ungarrisioned, but it is a crapshoot, It may take 1 month or 4 months to be retaken.

[8D]
Jon

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: hgilmer

Oh. Yeah, it went CSA.

Edit: So, you can attack Ky first and still get the state. Well, there went all incentive for me not to attack Ky early. [:D]

If you attack the state, the state will never join your side as a full member (and may join the other side). If the state decides not to join the side that did not attack it, then the state remains neutral until one side captures all of the population centers, at which point it will become an aligned state. It's very possible for one side to attack Kentucky, have it remain neutral, and then have it eventually become aligned with the side that attacked it. Check the rules for the differences in neutral state status.

[hgilmer]

    You can't ever get into those two eastern regions so it doesn't matter much to me.