Supports in duels

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 5:10 pm

Is it just me, but how come the only time I can imagine a support titan faring well in a duel is when it's dueling another support or at least a long-range titan and thus not having to worry about the minimum range of its weapons?

A close-range titan doesn't really need much in terms of cover to get tantalizingly close to that said support without even being shot once.. And we all know how it usually ends. (Usually, because once I got my a$$ kicked piloting a CC titan but still being whacked down by a GM support even after getting close pretty unharmed)

Opinions or differing experiences are welcomed..

Lyhrrus · Post by **Lyhrrus** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:22 am

Define support. Support as the pinboard puts it, or support as having long range weaponry only?

rosary · Post by **rosary** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 10:07 am

I think we're using some different definitions in warring suns. The Technicant was designed for a specific mission and was designed using the Warring Suns factory. As you can see it is not a support titan.

Titan Name: <Technicant> (Heavy Long Range Titan)
Chassis: Durania H4 Design:Vicious Byte

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight: 140.0t (140t maximum) Height : 16 [meter]
Bmt : 29 (41 kph) Reduce Heat: -2.7C/sec.
Jmt : 14 (85 kph) for 42 secs Cost : 321656 ($)

Equipment:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Component/Type/Location

Engine :Morola M5 [Engine 5] [CT ]
Heatreg. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> elinit H6 [Heat 6]
Flare :FL Surround [Flare6] [CBT ]
LifeSup. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> hillippi [Life 2] [CT ]
Scanner :CyberSys M [Scan 2] [RT ]
Computer:Mark BC-X [Comp. 6] [Head]
E.C.M :TraCop [E.C.M. 5] [LT ]
JumpPort:Morola MJ [Jump 4]

Weapons:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Location/Weapon/Ammunition/SL

[RA ] G.M. 3 RACK (036) [3]
[LA ] G.M. 3 RACK (036) [3]
[RT ] G.M. 3 RACK (024) [2]
[LT ] PULSE LASER

Armor:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Loc/Internal/Armor/Points/mm

[Head] (13) Dullaroy 024 [035mm]
[RT ] (27) Dullaroy 049 [071mm]
[CT ] (27) Dullaroy 066 [095mm]
[CBT ] (15) Dullaroy 041 [059mm]
[LT ] (27) Dullaroy 050 [072mm]
[RA ] (25) Dullaroy 049 [071mm]
[LA ] (25) Dullaroy 049 [071mm]
[LowT] (15) Dullaroy 055 [080mm]
[RL ] (21) Dullaroy 051 [074mm]
[LL ] (21) Dullaroy 051 [074mm]

Armorindex: 5.01 [Total APts/T]
Internal: 216 [APts]
External: 485 [APts] Max:[095mm]
Total Armor: 701 [APts]

JOCK requirements:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Piloting: skill on Heavy Titan incl. Jump
Weapons : G.M. Energy
Warfare : Defensives Scanner Warfare(ECM)
Skills : Medical Recon Ind.Fire

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:17 pm

What you can imagine and reality are 2 different things. Not too long ago supports actually *ruled* the duel battlefields. But this has been so extensively discussed I don't want to go back to it.

LarkinVB · Post by **LarkinVB** » Tue Nov 13, 2001 4:09 pm

It does show the beauty of ToS. You can have it all. Weak supports, strong supports, all on the same battlefield.

jmikkone · Post by **jmikkone** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 4:38 pm

Eric, that titan you posted up there is clearly a support. That PL is just to have SOMETHING in case someone closes up on you. A role of a support shouldn't change if you add minor backup weapons. However, a TB or two would make it an All-Around titan.

Support weapons are great, no denying that, I love them etc., but in most cases shooting begins at ranges below 15 hexes or so, especially if your enemy is a CC titan trying to sneak on you. Only if you have a very good luck with the terrain having wide open plains plus a nearby mountaintop for you can you expect to dish enough damage to stop him early enough.

Besides, even Assault titans usually close in one full hex while that GM6/LRM12 waits to reload. Therefore I concluded that having a range advantage doesn't really matter THAT much in duels. Short range weapons tend to dish out damage faster once in range anyway.. Agreed, the Morningstar with a max range of 5 (two Teslas) is easy prey for supports, but still..

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:02 pm

Hey Eric, if you remove 1mm of armor from both legs, the armor ratings there will not change, and it will allow you to add 1mm (and 1 AP) to the RT making it equal to the LT, and 1 more mm (and 1 AP) to the LOT.

Support is not exactly a range-related definition, but more of a role-related one. The pinboard gives the range-related definition. It has been slightly rearranged in WS, according to Larkin. I think it is better this way. It might be a support or not, depending on how you use it, or if you're playing team or duel.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:17 pm

Originally posted by Jukka Mikkonen:
Besides, even Assault titans usually close in one full hex while that GM6/LRM12 waits to reload. Therefore I concluded that having a range advantage doesn't really matter THAT much in duels. Short range weapons tend to dish out damage faster once in range anyway.. Agreed, the Morningstar with a max range of 5 (two Teslas) is easy prey for supports, but still..

The same principle applies to recons, which can close in 2 full hexes. This is one of the reasons I don't agree with increasing the GMs' reload times for balancing. The other is it becomes simply too boring to wait for recycles.