Kentucky Rules

[herwin]

My offspring put together a summary of how a number of games handle the Kentucky problem:

The Civil War (VG) - Kentucky starts neutral. Either side could invade Kentucky before turn three (?), but would give the other side control of Kentucky. The Union gets Kentucky's rail lines on turn 3, and whichever side first controls all its VP cities controls the state. Both sides MAY use the navigable rivers bordering Kentucky.

A House Divided - Kentucky starts neutral. Each side gains control if its boxes if and only if they enter them. Either side can enter from turn one.

The War for the Union - much as SPI's game but with random entry dates. Both sides MAY use the navigable rivers bordering Kentucky.

For the People - The border states start uncontrolled. All border states use the same rules. No movement limitations.

The may-use-rivers rule appears correct. The Confederates first entered Kentucky to build batteries overlooking the Mississippi, and if players may not use the rivers, they need not bother with the batteries.

[heroldje]

am i the only one who thinks kentucky was never really going to go confederate?

[Doc o War]

See Jamiams new Kentucky Invasion House Rules- they really do seem to have a good feel to them and are in th eright direction historically

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: heroldje

am i the only one who thinks kentucky was never really going to go confederate?

Remember Kentucky was a slave state. Mary Todd Lincoln was from Kentucky and her brother or brothers fought for the South. So Kentucky staying with the Union was not a done deal.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff

ORIGINAL: heroldje

am i the only one who thinks kentucky was never really going to go confederate?

Remember Kentucky was a slave state. Mary Todd Lincoln was from Kentucky and her brother or brothers fought for the South. So Kentucky staying with the Union was not a done deal.

The highland counties along the spine of the Appalachians were anti-slavery, so, for example, West Virginia seceded from Virginia. The early-war campaign towards Knoxville and Chattanooga was to support Union sympathisers there. The rich Kentucky lowlands may have been pro-slavery, but the poorer highlands were anti-slavery.

[dakjck]

Why not simply prohibit overruns of neutral territory? Since there would be no overrun, there would be no strategic movemnet, no depot or fort building and no passing through "friendly" territory to reach that distant city region. The game already does this for naval invasions. It should not be that hard to code it for neutral areas as well.

[Doc o War]

Gents- you really should try Jamiams Kentucky Invasion rule- its clean- easy to follow and hugely fun and frustrating- just like it really was in 1861.  You need initiative- the game is, after all,  based around that concept.  You need initiative too move in. You have to be able to Pacify the neutral Region to move into it and to Overrun it you need to have enough combat strength to do so- There is no strat move in the first turn, It makes the entire invasion iffy- and also the reaction of the non invading player also takes initiative- until the state goes to one side or the other it is very slow going- and that is a very good 1861 historic simulation. Try it.
 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also try the Gulf Squadron/Mississippi House Rule, and the Neutral Region Overrun rule< again no Neutral overrun of a region without Initiative - even in MAryland.> &nbsp;It puts the 1861 game into a slower track and that is best for achieveing a correct startup to the war, you are free after the initial time to launch whatever you want- and thus on with the game.

[Ike1947]

ORIGINAL: Doc o War

Gents- you really should try Jamiams Kentucky Invasion rule- its clean- easy to follow and hugely fun and frustrating- just like it really was in 1861.  .....   Also try the Gulf Squadron/Mississippi House Rule, and the Neutral Region Overrun rule< again no Neutral overrun of a region without Initiative - even in MAryland.>  It puts the 1861 game into a slower track and that is best for achieveing a correct startup to the war, you are free after the initial time to launch whatever you want- and thus on with the game.

Doc: Whereabouts are those three rules located, so those of us who missed some of the debating, etc, in the threads can find them easily? Would it be possible to post them - and the other house rules that folks have found that work - in a "stickied" thread called ... ummm ... "House Rules" so we can pick and choose amongst 'em without a week's search and rescue among the threads? Thanks.

[JAMiAM]

ORIGINAL: Ike

ORIGINAL: Doc o War

Gents- you really should try Jamiams Kentucky Invasion rule- its clean- easy to follow and hugely fun and frustrating- just like it really was in 1861.  .....   Also try the Gulf Squadron/Mississippi House Rule, and the Neutral Region Overrun rule< again no Neutral overrun of a region without Initiative - even in MAryland.>  It puts the 1861 game into a slower track and that is best for achieveing a correct startup to the war, you are free after the initial time to launch whatever you want- and thus on with the game.

Doc: Whereabouts are those three rules located, so those of us who missed some of the debating, etc, in the threads can find them easily? Would it be possible to post them - and the other house rules that folks have found that work - in a "stickied" thread called ... ummm ... "House Rules" so we can pick and choose amongst 'em without a week's search and rescue among the threads? Thanks.

Not Doc, but I feel qualified to answer the question...[;)]

You can find them in the first post of this thread.

[Ike1947]

Thanks, JAMiAM!&nbsp; I found the Kentucky Rule and - I think - the Gulf Squadron/Mississippi River Rule, but unless the&nbsp;Neutral Region Overrun rule Kentucky Rule writ large, I didn't find that one.[:'(]

[Doc o War]

Iron Wills Rule about Neutral Regions is simple- NO region overruns without a leader who has Initiative- you can still march in- but you cannot Overrun the neutral region without Initiative-

[Capt Cliff]

If any of these rules are implimented by Matrix they should be optional rules that are checked at the begining of the game and NOT hard wired into the system. These are really rules for the hard core gamers.

[Ike1947]

Thanks, Doc!&nbsp; [:)]

[Doc o War]

Indeed you can not us the various house rules-it is all optional. Usually done by agreement between the players at startup. It is for those players who wish to step into those historic shoes. The options ad more realism to the situation.
&nbsp;If you are trying to do the solution to a grand strategy War Between the States- you should use the simulation that most represents the real problems the historic commanders,&nbsp; political and military faced.
&nbsp;
&nbsp; Thus these House rules that pop up in the gaming world- they often become norms- get integrated into later platforms.&nbsp; Sometimes they get changed.&nbsp; Its somewhat fluid this computer gaming world- but its based on old board games, so the platform for change has always driven these things- usually in a better direction.&nbsp; Thats just my opinion naturally.
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Oh and they are simple fixes usually that do not need immediate reprograming- drawing downvaluable designer programer talents who are currently on duty atthe Rusian Front--err game- that is coming next- but by this time next year this Game will morph into the final production version- and Will probably be well worth being familiar with.