**Unofficial AE Air Team Lead Update**

[TheElf]

I’ve noted a drastic slowing of discussion, and realize a lot of it is due to our preoccupation with working on this monster. I’ll let you all in on a little secret. We have our own developers forum for AE and it is a busy place. Much testing and reporting is being logged, and issues are being found and fixed. Here is the latest from the Air Team.

The biggest news I have to report is a crowd favorite. We had a bit of a database issue with A/C ranges. We found that using data from stock caused key issues with certain A/C so Thomas and I personally reviewed all A/C in the Database, and double and triple checked figures, made concessions where conflicts in sources arose, always eyeing the TYPICAL capabilities of an Airframe rather than making the excetion the rule.

I concluded that we needed to implement Drop Tanks. I drew up a rough draft design doc, and we created a build to complement the data. So we now have Drop Tanks. So far so good, but this change has occurred late and is one of many loose threads across all areas that has induced delay.

But…we have them. Here’s a little sample. All A/C that carried them can equip. Some gained them after the war started so we gave the option to date-delay them. The UI is basic, simply click “use Drop Tanks” and you unit will display the drop tank ranges in the Data page. There are now 4 range rings the normal range rings, same colors as stock, and the Normal DT and Extended DT ranges in Pink and Grey.

Extended range has been redfined. It is more of a gamble to operate at Extended range particularly when damaged, and the intent is for it to not be a sustainable prospect. What we gained…A6M2-21 & A6M3-22 can reach Lunga from Rabaul, P-47s can reach Wewak from PM, B-29s can reach Tokyo (at ext. Range) from Saipan, P-51Ds can reach Tokyo with drop tanks, and Oscars can fly offensive missions of most of Malaya from Indochina.

Currently testing centers around the old Grudge matches. I am running a “dirty” scenario based on Coral Sea to test historical likenesses between the Lae Wing and the RAAF and 8th PG. The old P-40/P-39 vs. Zeke duel.

Others are looking at the Offensive missions in "Clean" scenarios or Sandbox testing up the slot with Corsairs, P-40s, P-38s and Hellcats against a mix of INAF and IJAAF units. We are looking at the effects of radar, Pilot EXP, LDR ratings, HQs, and Altitude under the new code.

Heavy bombers are being tested vs. Strong Radar supported CAP to see how they behave. A few snags, but we are working on them.

Results have been promising. I can assure you the days of the Zero killer (under certain circumstance), are by no means a certainty. If you can field a strong IJ Air component there tends to be a greater variety of results, again dependent on the Tactical situation and the state of your units. The F4U is still a handful above 20k’ even between equal EXP opponents. Altitude is making a difference and the Bent wing bird can still carve Zekes out of the sky, just not in the volumes you saw in Stock.

My next order of business is looking at the new Attack Bombers in action. This is a little tested feature that bears significant attention.

We’ve also reviewed Pilot replacements. You’ll find a more significant supply on both sides. This was based on almost 2 years of research on and off, between myself, Thomas, and several Air Team members. Both sides will have more depth, but you still need to manage your forces. Staying on the offensive and pressuring the IJ player is a key to victory. You’ll have to look to force his hand a create the war of attrition somewhere if he avoids it in the Solomons. Likewise it’s going to be tough for the IJ player to whittle down the Allies supply of well trained and organized pilots!

The other area we are putting a lot of energy into is Raid coordination. Initial testing showed that too many Raids were going unescorted. Part of this was due to a misunderstanding of how this feature works. Essentially you set air units to the Same altitude in order to TELL the code you want them to Coordinate. Then a variety of factors are checked to see how well a raid is put together. The code is good to go, and we are getting our first look at the latest tweaks. More testing is required.

That’s it for now. Feel free to fire off questions, but try to avoid turning this thread into a debate forum. Thanks.

~Elf

[Q-Ball]

Elf;

Awesome job! Sounds like it will be well worth the wait!

on DROP TANKS, is there a penalty or consequence for using them? If not, why wouldn't you use them every time?

Can you comment a bit further on how the IJN/IJA Pilot replacements are modelled?

Also, I understand that you will no longer be able to on-map train fighters by bombing an airbase for example (they won't learn to dogfight anyway), but will the "Training" feature still be active for on-map training?

[dazoline II]

Awesome, thanks Elf.
I hope your avatar gets her wish soon!

Any conclusions on how the AI will handle the drop tanks?

[TheElf]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Elf;

Awesome job! Sounds like it will be well worth the wait!

on DROP TANKS, is there a penalty or consequence for using them? If not, why wouldn't you use them every time?

Can you comment a bit further on how the IJN/IJA Pilot replacements are modelled?

Also, I understand that you will no longer be able to on-map train fighters by bombing an airbase for example (they won't learn to dogfight anyway), but will the "Training" feature still be active for on-map training?

Yes the penalty is that operations conducted with DTs fitted consumes supply at TWICE the normal rate. It ain't cheap, even if you don't actually FLY at DT ranges.

Not sure what you mean by replacement modelling, can you specify?

Training will be possible on map, but only in specific skill sets. Overall EXP does not change as quickly from training.

[Fishbed]

Awesome Elf! Many great thanks!

[herwin]

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.

[undercovergeek]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.

i think number 4 refers to being bombed under a cloud but not launching an attack whilst youre under it

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.

1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: TheElf

I’ve noted a drastic slowing of discussion, and realize a lot of it is due to our preoccupation with working on this monster. I’ll let you all in on a little secret. We have our own developers forum for AE and it is a busy place. Much testing and reporting is being logged, and issues are being found and fixed. Here is the latest from the Air Team.

The biggest news I have to report is a crowd favorite. We had a bit of a database issue with A/C ranges. We found that using data from stock caused key issues with certain A/C so Thomas and I personally reviewed all A/C in the Database, and double and triple checked figures, made concessions where conflicts in sources arose, always eyeing the TYPICAL capabilities of an Airframe rather than making the excetion the rule.

I concluded that we needed to implement Drop Tanks. I drew up a rough draft design doc, and we created a build to complement the data. So we now have Drop Tanks. So far so good, but this change has occurred late and is one of many loose threads across all areas that has induced delay.

But…we have them. Here’s a little sample. All A/C that carried them can equip. Some gained them after the war started so we gave the option to date-delay them. The UI is basic, simply click “use Drop Tanks” and you unit will display the drop tank ranges in the Data page. There are now 4 range rings the normal range rings, same colors as stock, and the Normal DT and Extended DT ranges in Pink and Grey.

Extended range has been redfined. It is more of a gamble to operate at Extended range particularly when damaged, and the intent is for it to not be a sustainable prospect. What we gained…A6M2-21 & A6M3-32 can reach Lunga from Rabaul, P-47s can reach Wewak from PM, B-29s can reach Tokyo (at ext. Range) from Saipan, P-51Ds can reach Tokyo with drop tanks, and Oscars can fly offensive missions of most of Malaya from Indochina.

Currently testing centers around the old Grudge matches. I am running a “dirty” scenario based on Coral Sea to test historical likenesses between the Lae Wing and the RAAF and 8th PG. The old P-40/P-39 vs. Zeke duel.

Others are looking at the Offensive missions in "Clean" scenarios or Sandbox testing up the slot with Corsairs, P-40s, P-38s and Hellcats against a mix of INAF and IJAAF units. We are looking at the effects of radar, Pilot EXP, LDR ratings, HQs, and Altitude under the new code.

Heavy bombers are being tested vs. Strong Radar supported CAP to see how they behave. A few snags, but we are working on them.

Results have been promising. I can assure you the days of the Zero killer (under certain circumstance), are by no means a certainty. If you can field a strong IJ Air component there tends to be a greater variety of results, again dependent on the Tactical situation and the state of your units. The F4U is still a handful above 20k’ even between equal EXP opponents. Altitude is making a difference and the Bent wing bird can still carve Zekes out of the sky, just not in the volumes you saw in Stock.

My next order of business is looking at the new Attack Bombers in action. This is a little tested feature that bears significant attention.

We’ve also reviewed Pilot replacements. You’ll find a more significant supply on both sides. This was based on almost 2 years of research on and off, between myself, Thomas, and several Air Team members. Both sides will have more depth, but you still need to manage your forces. Staying on the offensive and pressuring the IJ player is a key to victory. You’ll have to look to force his hand a create the war of attrition somewhere if he avoids it in the Solomons. Likewise it’s going to be tough for the IJ player to whittle down the Allies supply of well trained and organized pilots!

The other area we are putting a lot of energy into is Raid coordination. Initial testing showed that too many Raids were going unescorted. Part of this was due to a misunderstanding of how this feature works. Essentially you set air units to the Same altitude in order to TELL the code you want them to Coordinate. Then a variety of factors are checked to see how well a raid is put together. The code is good to go, and we are getting our first look at the latest tweaks. More testing is required.

That’s it for now. Feel free to fire off questions, but try to avoid turning this thread into a debate forum. Thanks.

~Elf

Very very nice - many many thanks (for AE effort and this info)! [:)][&o]

One quick question - can you please show us how the new 5-band maneuverability data for aircraft will be shown for player in side game WitP-AE?


Leo "Apollo11"

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: herwin

1. Do you model sorties?
2. Do you model how CAS is most effective close to the perimeter of the air base?
3. Do you model the use of forward strips for refuelling/refitting?
4. Do you make weather affect both sides?
5. Do you model strip alert?

1): Not sure what you mean.
2): See 1.
3): No. One airfield per hex, as always.
4): See 1.
5): To a point. There's such a thing as CAP being reinforced.

1. The Air Tasking Order is written in terms of sorties. Wings, squadrons, etc., are sortie-generators. I think that was the case in WWII, too.

2. CAS is most effective at the shortest mission radius, as long as the aircraft are not under fire at their base. That's one reason the USMC adopted the Harrier--it could land just behind the MLR and be available for immediate CAS.

3. Many missions were staged through a forward strip. See 2 for why.

4. Currently, one side can be socked in, while the other experiences OK weather in the same hex. If the side with OK weather is the attacker, the result is an unopposed airstrike on a base or CVTF supposedly defended by CAP (and AA artillery).

5. OK.

Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.

As for CAS, what you're suggesting, in WWII terms, is the cab-rank system, which we're not modelling. Remember that there's no hour-by-hour run-down of the turn.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Very very nice - many many thanks (for AE effort and this info)! [:)][&o]

One quick question - can you please show us how the new 5-band maneuverability data for aircraft will be shown for player in side game WitP-AE?


Leo "Apollo11"

Looks like this. As you can see, it's a modifier to combat rolls:

[m10bob]

With all the hoopla and fanfare, I had no doubt the ranges would be corrected..(Now, the Martin B 26 will quit stumbling over its' own feet.)..Thank you..

[Sardaukar]

Would be nice to have different weapon loads, like "Use Rockets" etc. Or have different weapon loads for different missions. Like PBY Catalina, Night Naval Atack -> use torpedo, ASW patrol -> use depth charges etc.

[Terminus]

Some things had to fall by the wayside, and that last one was one of them. The closest we have is a toggle for torpedo-carrying aircraft to switch between carrying torpedoes or bombs.

[Q-Ball]

Side art on that Nate looks good!

[Javakamp]

Awesome stuff Elf. Thanks for the update.

Are there maneuver penalties for Drop Tanks, or are they assumed to drop them if engaged in combat? 

What does the "Refresh a/c" button do?

[mbatch729]

Excellent news! This is sounding better and better. Hope we can get it by early '09. Sounds like I'll be playing it for many, many years.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Weather can most certainly affect both sides in AE, causing split-up raids, bombers getting lost, fighter escort getting lost... You name it.

Is this in any way reported to the players so they know what happened during a turn? Or is it as before, only occuuring behind the scenes in the code with no way for players to know about or appreciate what happened?

Jim

[pad152]

The load out changes for some aircraft (fighter bombers) with the use of drop tanks, less bombs (only so many hard points), so how is this handled?


Max Range? Does max range for aircraft transfers to/from bases now require drop tanks, thus requiring more supply?