How do trade and other resources work?

[Lucky1]

Although I have been playing this game for some time, I still do not properly understand how trade and other resources work. In a recent game, I was advised by my adversary (playing Germany) that he did not need transports in the med to link with Iraq because he had a trade agreement with Turkey and that the resources (being adjacent by rail) would make it to German industry. Ok, then. I learned something new and started checking the resource and production screen. However, I still do not fully understand how it works. What is the difference between trade and a gift? How long to captured resources remain in the pool?

More importantly, I am not sure what is required to actually tap into resources. For example, in a recent game I took Norwary. I developed its resources etc. and watched to see whether they would be transmitted via Sweden (Axis leaning, level 2, I think). I had transports in the baltic. In the next turn, I saw no new resources. Odd. So I moved a transport above Denmark. The next turn, I received 11 trade resources! I took the transport back to the Balkans. No trade resources. I put the transport back. 11 trade resources. It seemed that I was getting no resources from Sweden, Finland or Norway (neutral, but Axis-leaning) unless my transport was between Norway and Denmark (occupied by Germany). Can someone please explain this?

More generally, can someone provide an explanation of how resources actually are captured / transmitted? It would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Sean

[Tom Grosv]

Sean

I don't think my knowledge of the rules is really good enough to answer you but in the absence of anyone else at the 'mo I'll try my best.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
Although I have been playing this game for some time, I still do not properly understand how trade and other resources work. In a recent game, I was advised by my adversary (playing Germany) that he did not need transports in the med to link with Iraq because he had a trade agreement with Turkey and that the resources (being adjacent by rail) would make it to German industry.

I'm not sure your German adversary is correct. Rule 11.7.1 Automatic Resource Movement (Including Free Trade) states that for resources to move they must be adjacent to a friendly or neutral region that contains rail and/or a Transport Fleet. It just says neutral, not leaning or pro neutral to you. So even if Turkey was neutral pro Allied, I believe those Iraqi resources could still be transported over Turkey to German factories.

Ok, then. I learned something new and started checking the resource and production screen. However, I still do not fully understand how it works. What is the difference between trade and a gift?

I think a gift is a one-off political situation that is embedded in the game at the start and there are only two of them. One is the WA has to gift 5 RP per turn to Japan from Summer 1939 to Spring 1941 but not if Japan is at war with Russia or WA, controls Siam or controls any non-coastal Chinese Region. The second is the SU has to gift Germany 3 RP per turn from Summer 1939 to Fall 1941 unless at war with Germany. These gifts do not have to trace a movement path like other resources - they are just picked up from a US or SU region and placed in Tokyo or East Germany.

Trade refers to neutral regions in a balanced state who only produce resources in Winter and Summer turns and at the beginning of those turns will send 1/2 their RP rounded down to World Powers on a first come first serve basis as long as there is a valid path as set out in 11.7.1. The Axis are at an advantage because they get first go. For instance, if Norway is balanced neutral and has 2 RPs in its pool in Winter 1941 and Germany has a valid path then Germany will get 1 RP for production. However, there is then only 1 RP in the pool for the WA and half of that is 1/2 rounded down = nothing.

How long to captured resources remain in the pool?

Do you really mean captured? According to 11.5 you probably won't get many captured resources in the game as captured pools are reduced randomly by the computer to between 0 abd 1/2 of the region's Resource Centres. As to how long they remain in the pool, well I guess they are treated like any other resources once captured. 11.5 says at the end of a player's production phase the resource pool cannot exceed the number of resource centres in the region with the exception of a region with 1 resource centre that can store 2 resource points or a region with a factory but not a resource centre that can store 1 resource point.

More importantly, I am not sure what is required to actually tap into resources. For example, in a recent game I took Norwary. I developed its resources etc. and watched to see whether they would be transmitted via Sweden (Axis leaning, level 2, I think). I had transports in the baltic. In the next turn, I saw no new resources. Odd. So I moved a transport above Denmark. The next turn, I received 11 trade resources! I took the transport back to the Balkans. No trade resources. I put the transport back. 11 trade resources. It seemed that I was getting no resources from Sweden, Finland or Norway (neutral, but Axis-leaning) unless my transport was between Norway and Denmark (occupied by Germany). Can someone please explain this?

I don't think it should make any difference whether your transport was in the Baltic or above Denmark - the resources should come from Norway. And they wouldn't be 11 - I imagine they could only be 2 maximum. Is it possible that you saw the 11 extra trade resources during winter/summer turns when you got free trade and didn't see them in spring/fall when you didn't get free trade?

More generally, can someone provide an explanation of how resources actually are captured / transmitted? It would be greatly appreciated.

I think this has been covered.

Hope this helps. Tom

[WanderingHead]

here's my stab.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
In a recent game, I was advised by my adversary (playing Germany) that he did not need transports in the med to link with Iraq because he had a trade agreement with Turkey and that the resources (being adjacent by rail) would make it to German industry.

The best way to answer these kinds of questions is to experiment.

Actually, this was a surprise to me. I didn't know you could get your own resources through neutral rail links. But I fired it up and experimented proved that it is indeed true! My experiment was from WA Sweden through WA friendly neutral Norway to transports to England (my German's did some irrational air raids over Scandinavia to set up the experiment).

As to Tom's statement that the neutral doesn't even have to be friendly, I really don't know, I didn't experiment with that.

It's often difficult to answer these kinds of questions, because not wanting to be wrong I have to fire up the game to make sure I am right.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
What is the difference between trade and a gift?

Couple of things. A gift is from one Player to another (one of the 5: Ger, Jap, Sov, Chin, WA), and does not require any transport link. The resources are simply taken from one Player (some semi-random location as I recall) and placed in a region of the recipient player. And of course the gift can expire or be canceled based on the recipient's actions.

Free trade come only from Neutrals, and requires a transport or land link.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
How long to captured resources remain in the pool?

When a region is captured, some resources are destroyed and some remain. At the end of the turn, each region with a resource center can store the maximum of (i) 2 resources, (ii) the number of resource centers in the region. I.e., with 1 or 2 resource centers it can store 2 resource points, with more than 2 resource centers it can store the number of resource centers.

During the production phase resources will move to linked regions with factories to consume them. In addition, there is an effort to ensure that excess resources move to the regions with factories that also have enough resource centers to store them after the end of the turn.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
More importantly, I am not sure what is required to actually tap into resources. For example, in a recent game I took Norwary. I developed its resources etc. and watched to see whether they would be transmitted via Sweden (Axis leaning, level 2, I think). I had transports in the baltic. In the next turn, I saw no new resources. Odd. So I moved a transport above Denmark. The next turn, I received 11 trade resources! I took the transport back to the Balkans. No trade resources. I put the transport back. 11 trade resources. It seemed that I was getting no resources from Sweden, Finland or Norway (neutral, but Axis-leaning) unless my transport was between Norway and Denmark (occupied by Germany). Can someone please explain this?

You can check the resource screen (? I don't recall what is is called) and mouse over the unlinked resource regions to see what is connected. Also, note whether the regions have any resources to trade at all. A neutral balanced region will only produce resources every other turn, and will only trade 1/2 of its resources (round down). Once a neutral is biased towards a side it will produce every turn and give all resources.

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
More generally, can someone provide an explanation of how resources actually are captured / transmitted?

Captured is clear, capture a region with resource points. Some will disappear, some will remain.

Gift resources go automatically at the beginning of the season (before the German turn), no link required.

Free trade and the Player's own resources require a link, and they move when the production phase is entered and also potentially every time a production order is added in the production queue (moving free resources to the factories that will need them).

[Lucky1]

Thanks for your help guys. Part of my difficulty in terms of experimenting is that I can never actually get the resource info to add up in the first place (the baseline, if you will). As such, I am not entirely sure which resources are actually making it to factories or being pooled etc. As for the location of my fleet, I will experiment some more. However, it might be possible that I was getting free trade on winter and summer turns, confusing the matter. I will have to watch a bit more closely though, as it can obviously play a big role....

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Lucky1
Part of my difficulty in terms of experimenting is that I can never actually get the resource info to add up in the first place (the baseline, if you will). As such, I am not entirely sure which resources are actually making it to factories or being pooled etc.

This is admittedly a part of the game where an awful lot is going on under the hood.