Italian Surrender

[BK6583]

Just want to be sure of this. Just for the heck of it I'm playing TE with Italy set join CP. That happened and I've forced Italy to surender. The units from both sides were moved out of Italy with the French sitting on their southern border and the CP back on the old Italian border in Austria. Am I to understand that neither side can now move into the 'old' Italy?

[Vasquez]

both can enter by using activation points

[BK6583]

"both can enter by using activation points"

After continuing on you're absolutely correct. Now can Frank or someone explain what I can only term as rather bizzare where after I conquer Italy I'm 'thrown' out; yet by expending HQ points I'm allowed to advance back into what is back to being Italian controlled territory??? I'm now finding myself expending valuable offensive points to advance back into a country I conquered and am also in a race against my opponent who is also advancing back into the same country I conquered??? Surely I'm missing something here.

[ILCK]

Surrender is odd in the game. You'd think surrender would mean everyone gets tossed out and no one can come back in to the non-annexed part. What happens will vary with who does the actual surrendering. Example:

When France surrenders, everyone gets tossed out and a bunch of German units automatically and for free move East.
When Austria surrenders everyone stays right where they are and the war goes right on.

[boogada]

There is no way any game can simulate the surrender accurately. Its just too much of a mess. Both sides fought for final victory, thats why there were so few actual surrenders in 1914-1918. Not even Serbia or Belgium, who were almost completely overrun surrendered. Pretty much all nations had very ill defined and unlimited war aims they were fighting for (actually most war aims were discussed and developed after the war had already begun) and therefore they needed to win the entire war and not just beat one country after the other. There were only two treaties during the war time (with Romania and Russia), and both didn't last longer than the final CP surrender.

Austria is even worse, because in case of defeat AH would have fallen apart like it did after 1918. My guess would be that some people would have kept fighting with Germany, some with Russia and all the others against everybody else. And how do you want to simulate that?

[ILCK]

ORIGINAL: boogada

Austria is even worse, because in case of defeat AH would have fallen apart like it did after 1918. My guess would be that some people would have kept fighting with Germany, some with Russia and all the others against everybody else. And how do you want to simulate that?

You can't code for every eventuality- I mean heck AH could surrender to Italy and that would be different than a surrender to Russia- but you can at least make the rules for surrender of a major power consistent and transparent to the players.

[SMK-at-work]

Long time no post...

However there are surrender documents around that tell us the sorts of terms that were likely to be imposed - and they generally include gettign the former allies off your soil, and allowing your victors free access to the enemy if there's a path through you.

This is hte sort of thing Bulgaria and Austria signed at hte end of hte war and hter's no reason to suppose Italy surrendering (either way) could expect anything different.

Looks like it stil hasn't been incorporated tho