Aircraft Reinforcements and Pools

[Oldguard1970]

Let's say I withdraw a squadron of fighters with an authorized strength of 12 planes. I say I want it to return as a reinforcement. It lands in the reinforcement schedule for 60 days out. When the 60 days pass, what happens if the aircraft pool is empty or low? Will the squadron arrive understrength, or will it wait until the pool of aircraft is large enough to bring it on at proper strength? (Allies, stock)

Thanks.

[rominet]

I made the test with hurricane.
First thing, anyway pool empty or not, the airgroup arrives at the right date.
If you have enough hurricane in pool, the airgroup is arriving full strengh with hurricane
BUT the pool is not changed (very important).
If there are no hurricane in the pool (or perhaps too few), the airgroup is arriving full
strengh with Lysander.

In the same manner, i saw P-40 airgroup arriving with P-36 or B-17 replaced by Bolo
but sometimes, it happened even with a correct pool. It is not clear.

[Ambassador]

So, it's a way to get "free" planes of a given model that you don't build much ?  Like F-5A for example ?

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

So, it's a way to get "free" planes of a given model that you don't build much ?  Like F-5A for example ?

Right and even at the beginning when the Allies are short of planes and have to many airgroups compared to the replacement rate.

[Oldguard1970]

Merci, Rominet,
 
Your test tells me the air unit arrives at full strength with either the assigned aircraft or one of the earlier models. 
 
What do you think would happen with something like the Dutch patrol aircraft, the Do-24K-2?  It is not in production, and there are no earlier models.  Would the air uint just stay in the reinfocement list forever while it waits for planes?

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

Merci, Rominet,

Your test tells me the air unit arrives at full strength with either the assigned aircraft or one of the earlier models. 

What do you think would happen with something like the Dutch patrol aircraft, the Do-24K-2?  It is not in production, and there are no earlier models.  Would the air uint just stay in the reinfocement list forever while it waits for planes?

No problem with your Dornier!! They will arrive at Sydney mostly with PBY-Catalina and some under SWPac HQ. So, free plane and economy of PP.
Do you wonder why Allies won the war?[;)]
I have withdrawn mine like that (except the last one), a nice idea to evacuate Indonesia.

[Feinder]

BUT the pool is not changed (very important).

Actually, I'm certain that when I tested this, it -did- draw down the pool by the number or replacement AC. Also, when a carrier respawns, the planes and pilots are drawn from the pools (which can really hurt).

I think this happens only in CHS.

There are only a few models where this occurs.  I'm very familiar with Hurricane-Lizzy issue (had several Hurri squadrons arrive with Lizzys, until I figured out I needed to keep 16 Hurricanes in the pool to avert this).  And for those unfamiliar, the Lizzy is a recon in CHS, not a FB.

And no, it doesn't allow you to upgrade the Lizzys to F-5s, only back to Hurricanes.  

The reality of it is that it's annoying, but you're really not gaining anything.  If you have enought planes in the pool to fill the disbanded/withdrawn sqdn, you draw the appropriate number of AC from the pool. If you do end up with insufficient Hurris in the pool (to trigger this oddness), it draws Lizzys (which you have plenty of).  Your squadron sits with Lizzys until you have enough Hurricanes to convert them back.  Unless of course, you acutally -want- a bunch of Lizzys (range 3 recon AC is pretty worthless).

There's another AC type that flops over if not enough in the pool.  I remember seeing it early game (prob Spring 42), but haven't seen it happen in a long time (and have forgotten what AC model it was).

-F-

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Feinder


Actually, I'm certain that when I tested this, it -did- draw down the pool by the number or replacement AC. Also, when a carrier respawns, the planes and pilots are drawn from the pools (which can really hurt).

Sorry, i can not confirm what you said. In my game (april 42), i receive 20 B-17 a month;
however, i have more than 170 B-17 in my pool (which starts at zero the december 7);
and my B-17C airgroups are at full strengh. How can you explain that, in only 4 months,
if there are no free plane? It is in stock.

[rominet]

And the test i made (on CHS) with Hurri and Lysander is as follow:

No Hurricane at the beginning and a replacement rate equal to zero;
same for the Lysander except that there are 45 in pool at the beginning.

2 months later (mid february 42), 7 Lysander airgroups (112 planes) are at Aden
and there are still 45 Lysander in the pool.
Where do they come from? They are free.[:'(]

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

Merci, Rominet,

Your test tells me the air unit arrives at full strength with either the assigned aircraft or one of the earlier models. 

What do you think would happen with something like the Dutch patrol aircraft, the Do-24K-2?  It is not in production, and there are no earlier models.  Would the air uint just stay in the reinfocement list forever while it waits for planes?

No problem with your Dornier!! They will arrive at Sydney mostly with PBY-Catalina and some under SWPac HQ. So, free plane and economy of PP.
Do you wonder why Allies won the war?[;)]
I have withdrawn mine like that (except the last one), a nice idea to evacuate Indonesia.

Uh ?

So, if on December 7, 1941 I withdraw Dornier squadrons (that only have 3 planes each), by February 7, 1942, I'll get those squadrons back, filled with Catalinas, even as dutch squadrons won't be able to upgrade their plane models until July 1942 ?[X(]

If so, what do Martin 139 come back as ?

[Yamato hugger]

No, if you withdraw the Dornier squadrons they will come back equipped with C-47s.

(edit: or Dakotas, either way, same plane)

The Martains I believe come back as Hudsons.

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

No, if you withdraw the Dornier squadrons they will come back equipped with C-47s.

(edit: or Dakotas, either way, same plane)

The Martains I believe come back as Hudsons.

No, in stock, they came back as PBY-Catalina.



And the Martin 139 came back as Martin 139 or Hudson but i don't know what is the criterion[&:].

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

So, if on December 7, 1941 I withdraw Dornier squadrons (that only have 3 planes each), by February 7, 1942, I'll get those squadrons back, filled with Catalinas, even as dutch squadrons won't be able to upgrade their plane models until July 1942 ?

If so, what do Martin 139 come back as ?

Yes, if you have the same game as me (stock)

[Ambassador]

Yes, I'm only playing stock for now (waiting AE, not wanting to "learn" a mod for a few months when I'm still striving with some parts of the vanilla game).
 
Thanks, it's very useful to know, given the huge number of under-strength dutch squadrons.  And since I get tons of Hudson from converting australian Hudsons to Beaufort...

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

No, if you withdraw the Dornier squadrons they will come back equipped with C-47s.

(edit: or Dakotas, either way, same plane)

The Martains I believe come back as Hudsons.

No, in stock, they came back as PBY-Catalina.

And the Martin 139 came back as Martin 139 or Hudson but i don't know what is the criterion[&:].

Well this much I can promise you. Every time I have disbanded a Dutch patrol squadron they have come back as Dakotas. But then, I DISBAND units. I dont WITHDRAW them. I dump the pilots into the other squadron also rather than leaving the pilots in the old squadron.

When you disband the unit comes back with trained pilots - free.

When you widraw them, they keep their pilots (or at least they are supposed to) with the unit. So no free pilots. I'd rather have free trained pilots than free PBYs (that you are going to have coming out of your ears very shortly anyway).

And the criteria for Martains / Hudsons is pool numbers. If there are enough Martains in the pool to make the unit, then its Martains, if not, its Hudsons.

[Ambassador]

The advantage of getting Catalinas would be that they're useful as patrols, while Dakotas are obviously not (bashing open doors here), not the fact that you get free planes.  It's all well to already have 180 PBYs in the pool, but until July, you're stuck with a bunch of 3-plane flights, whose losses you cannot even replace because of the lack of new Do-24.  It's a question of having more aircrafts in action.
Having more trained pilots is not as interesting IMVHO if they're stuck with a plane model which you have no use for it, until you can upgrade in July.  Especially as dutch pilots don't have that much XP to begin with, even when "trained".

[Ambassador]

By the way, are the two of you using the same version of the game & database ?  'could explain the difference between getting PBYs or Dakotas...

[Yamato hugger]

Well I was referring to stock. I dont disband Dutchies in CHS and I havent played stock in probably 2 years now.

[Ambassador]

Two years, huh ?  I bet the version has been updated in that time, so I would not be surprised if it somehow changed that...

[rominet]

the screen is coming from my current game, stock 1.806 of course.

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Two years, huh ?  I bet the version has been updated in that time, so I would not be surprised if it somehow changed that...

The database hasnt changed since 1.6