Old BBs

[HansBolter]

Should Nimitz have sent some of the old BBs down to SouthPAC?

Were any of them repaired sufficiently by the time things heated up in the south to be available for use there?

I know I have read that Nimitz essentially mothballed them until they were used for invasion bombardment later in the war. I have also read the main reason he did this was because they were too slow to keep up with the carriers. However, that implies he was blind to the other potential uses for them such as surface action groups against other SAGs.

I have found that if things don't go well for the Japs at Pearl in WitP the old BBs become great tools for use as SAG leaders in SoPac. Was Nimitz too dismissing of their value after the attack on pearl ushered in the era of the carrier?

[Terminus]

At least four of the pre-war ships, the New Mexico, Mississippi, Colorado and Maryland, operated extensively in the South Pacific (the latter two based at Fiji) during the second half of 1942 and first half of 1943 (check DANFS). The others were a little busy being put back together.

[HansBolter]

Strange that UV never seems to give them to the Allied player in '42 even with a 200% over historicval ship committment. The Americans seem to be stuck facing 8+ Japanese BBs with only the North Carolina and Washington.

[Terminus]

Don't know why that would be. The WitP Guadalcanal scenario features the Maryland, Colorado, Tennessee and Idaho.

[Kingfisher]

During Midway there were at least 6 stationed in San Fran, so they certainly could have been sent down to SoPac by the timeframe of UV.
Their slow speed wouldn't have been a liability given the fact most of the allied surface forces spent a good part of their time escorting even slower transports.
 

[anarchyintheuk]

"Protecting" the West Coast must have had priority.

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Strange that UV never seems to give them to the Allied player in '42 even with a 200% over historicval ship committment. The Americans seem to be stuck facing 8+ Japanese BBs with only the North Carolina and Washington.

I usually get at least one pair of the old BBs. I'll have to check if that isn't in early '43 though.

Send back what you don't need or want . . . AVs, Long Island, old subs, damaged ships and try to rotate DDs out to get them upgraded and reducing your onboard point total as much as possible. Make sure you have at least 4 DDs at PH ready to escort or your CVs/BBs won't leave. If you have a high commitment level there's no reason you shouldn't get them.

They're useful to soak up torpedos and gunfire, but don't expect them to hit much. Their rate of fire is 1 compared to the USN fast BBs and IJN BBs rate of fire of 2.

[HansBolter]

I took a look at the reinforcement track last night. Several of the old BBs are there but they don't even begin arriving in Pearl until late December '42, with the majority not arriving there until '43. Which means that they certainly don't have a chance of arriving in the south until well into '43.

Why is it when you set the scenarios for 200% ship committment the Japanese have 8+ BBs by September, but the US doesn't release anything more than the two historical releases to that theater, the North Carolina and the Washington, during the same time period.

The more I play this game the more I come to believe the scenario designers were Japanese fan boys.

[tocaff]

I think Hans is relating his situation in our game. 

The OOB is UV is seriously in need of being corrected for CF.  It would make for better play if the ship available at the time really were.  It's terribly one sided when the IJN gets the kitchen sink and the USN waits for what should be available and then waits some more for ships to finally be released to the area of ops.  It's maddening waiting and waiting with everything you need for your offensinve to be released and yet it just sits at PH rusting away.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: tocaff



The OOB is UV is seriously in need of being corrected for CF.  It would make for better play if the ship available at the time really were.  It's terribly one sided when the IJN gets the kitchen sink and the USN waits for what should be available and then waits some more for ships to finally be released to the area of ops.  It's maddening waiting and waiting with everything you need for your offensinve to be released and yet it just sits at PH rusting away.

In complete agreement with you on this!!!!!

[Terminus]

With Tankerace in charge of CF, I'm sure the OOB will be comprehensively scrubbed.

[HansBolter]

Thanks for the support on this one guys.

It seems really absurd that so much of the US fleet gets held back to defend Pearl and San Fran when both sides are set to 200% committment and the both the entire KB and the entire Jap BB fleet has deployed to the South Pac theater.

I realize that EVENTUALLY I'll get overwhelming support, but during the critical period of fall '42 the US fights with one hand tied behind it's back while the Japs get everything in their arsenal.

[Kingfisher]

Pardon the stupid question, but is there any option available to create your own (or edit existing) scenarios in UV?

[anarchyintheuk]

Seems logical that irl the old BBs would be redeployed when the imbalance in forces was recognized.

[anarchyintheuk]

I'm the wrong guy to ask, but I don't think UV can be edited except for icons and other art. All the data is hardcoded.


You can create your own scenarios. This site has a couple listed:

http://mathubert.free.fr/

[borner]

I will second... or third... fourth...fifth??? The OOB comments! good point!
 

[borner]

Why the US never sent the "old" BB's to support the campaign really is a good question.   Pennsylvania was active until OCt 42 when she went back for rebuild. NEw Mexico, Mississippi and Idaho pretty much stayed on the West Coast; Tennessee was around again until fall 42 when she was sent for a rebuild. Colorado and Maryland were active in the area ( as well as being around Midway a few times) as a previous post stated. so, depending on the dates, you have 5-7 BB's availiable. Can you imagine a fight between two of these units and 2 Kongo class?
 
In the tight confines around Lugna, the slow speed of these units would have been less of a drawback than an action in the open sea.

[RGIJN]

it looks even more levelled when you´re considering the rather "ancient" concept of armour these ships were built of. As you correctly mentioned speed and maneuvering would have played only a minor rule in these confined waters. So main caliber would have been a fact... But I still think IJN night fighting skills still were way ahead of anything the US were trained for. At least initially, during the 1942 days of combat.
The "real contest" would have taken place between the more modern men of war... YAMATO class vs. IOWAs or NAGATO/MUTSU duelling with the SOUTH DAKOTA, WASHINGTON or the NORTH CAROLINA.
However, the Japanese Navy was just unable to stage such operations due to simple supply issues. Fuel was precious even in 1942, when most of the seized refineries in the Dutch East Indies still had their struggle about the output. Aside from that, the Imperial High Command was always dreaming of "The one decisive battle" and because of that they held back as much power as possible. Furthermore, ADM Yamamoto Isoroku preferred complex battle plans. But eventually, they paid a heavy toll for their reserve (reluctance). In the crucial year of 1943 they felt only able to release cruisers (and mostly the older light ones) and destroyers down to the Solomons though the US had not too many heavy naval vessels operating there. The japanese major base at Truk held the "crown jewels" most of the time from summer 1942 till early 1944, quite inactive during that time.
So did Nimitz, but for another reason. It was just not necessary to endanger his slow BBs in this theatre since the Allies ruled the seas (and skies) anyway.
From 1944 on, the "old battle fleet" of the USN did very well in shelling islands that were about to be invaded. There was no need (and no opportunity) to fight against IJN BBs.

[Kingfisher]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Why is it when you set the scenarios for 200% ship committment the Japanese have 8+ BBs by September, but the US doesn't release anything more than the two historical releases to that theater, the North Carolina and the Washington, during the same time period.

South Dakota also shows up around that time frame.

[tocaff]

This is one of the many reasons people, myself included, have migrated to WITP. 

The editor in WITP is a powerful tool and if the ship was available in the Pacific then it's yours to send where you will.  These are just 2 of the many reasons my UV career is winding down.