WW I - East Front

[Zaratoughda]

I recently did a survey of the TOAW scenarios on this period/area... and you got 4 Todd Klemme scenarios (Tannenberg, Serbia/Gallicia, 1915 and Brusilov) that pretty much cover things at the high level, plus 4 smaller scale 'battle' scenarios (the 3 Forgotten Battle scenarios and the Battle of Mount Cer).

IMO, this is a pretty good set covering this period/area.

But, I am curious.... are there any other games out there (available now or abandoned) that cover this period/area along these lines (e.g. division/brigade/regiment level with standard military icons, etc)??

My guess is there isn't but.... I am curious.

Yeah, TOAW has it's pros and cons, but if it is the only game with a scenario on a period that you are interested in, the pros and cons are kinda moot.

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Z

P.S. I also have the Franco-Prussian War and Seven Weeks War scenarios and I highly doubt am ever gonna find anything else competitive with these.

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Zaratoughda

But, I am curious.... are there any other games out there (available now or abandoned) that cover this period/area along these lines (e.g. division/brigade/regiment level with standard military icons, etc)??

There are available some WWI scenarios for AGW (Schwerpunkt) designed by 5th HORSEMAN, division level, you can find them on Gamesquad:
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/downloa ... cat&id=115

[Zaratoughda]

JMass... thanks for the reply!

I checked out Schwerpunkt and AGW and the scenarios you mention and.... looks
interesting but, I would expect, not quite as good as TOAW. Would be worth picking
up a copy though if only I had the time right now <g>.

Thanks again,

Z

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: Zaratoughda
But, I am curious.... are there any other games out there (available now or abandoned) that cover this period/area along these lines (e.g. division/brigade/regiment level with standard military icons, etc)??

My guess is there isn't but.... I am curious.

If you are willing to go way back in time, the old Panzer General game has quite a few WW I scenarios . . . I know because I wrote them myself. There are about 30 scenarios for the PG Win95 versions and an excellent campaign game, with custom graphics, that was made by a friend for the PG dos version.

The scenarios cover 1914 thru 1916 and include the Eastern Front, Western Front, Italian Front, naval battles and the Middle East. Unfortunately, the scenarios use people/equipment representations rather than the standard unit icons. However, with a bit of work, the icons could be customized to your liking.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS – I am currently playing the 1870 Franco-Prussian scenario and I can guaranty you that it is a very competitive as a PBM scenario.

[Raver508]

Wow Rhinobones - are you serious that you designed some of the scenarios for Panzer General?&nbsp; I presume its PG1 you mean?&nbsp; I got that game given to me by my wife in a pack with TOAW1 in it as well - damn I loved that game!

[rhinobones]

Yes, PG1. I wrote all of the scnarios used in the Kaiser General campaign.

Regards, RhinoBones

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/pgfanatics/

[Raver508]

Cool.&nbsp; That site has tempted me into having another go at PG.&nbsp; The campaigns look pretty cool so I'll probably have a crack over the summer holidays.

[rhinobones]

When you get it running let me know and I'll send you a file with all of the original WIN95 WWI scenarios.

Regards, RhinoBones

[Raver508]

Hmm... I thought the game was now abandonware and able to be downloaded for free, but that doesnt seem to be the case?

[ralphtricky]

Life is full of strange coincidences.

Someone is trying to recreate that game, starting from scratch. Even if he succeeds, it will take a while.

http://www.codeplex.com/xnaPanzer if you want to take a look at it. He's just started getting the map up, so it's in the very early stages.

Ralph

[Zaratoughda]

I have been playing a bit with Inaki's FP War scenario and, it is quite unique in that the force supply range is just 1 and there is no unit rail repair (supposedly a global rail repair rate of 1 but I have yet to notice any railroad repairs). What this means, is supply will get really difficult just a few hexes away from the initial front lines. And, just a 12 turn game so not much time to witdraw units, resupply and then send them back in.

Still, you run into some of TOAW's lackings just with this scenario. First, the need to completely surround units to wipe them out as otherwise they will retreat forever and thus, the 'ants blocking retreats' problem. Would prefer there was some level of zone of control (or the equivalent) used and 'ants'.... just got pushed outta the way by retreating units but, can't have everything I guess.

Also, the way HQ Bias is done.... can be done by any HQ that has full support.... makes the corps level HQ units interchangable. In other words, no need to keep them anywhere's near their actual divisions... any HQ in the army can give the supply. The support rules are fine for combat support but HQ Bias supply should be based on the chain of command and.... yeah.... TOAW doesn't have that.

Whatever.... an interesting scenario in any case and seems to do a good job with historicity so..... worthwhile even given TOAW's lackings.

Against the computer, I got a significant victory in large part as Elmer did not defened Sedan and I was able to waltz in. Would be tough to do better than a draw I would imagine in PBEM.

Z

[Zaratoughda]

U can still get the game out there if you look hard enough.

Still, would be nice if the owner's of the copyright made these games available with a software copy of the manual for like 5 or 10 bucks for a download.... but they don't and thus the abandonedware sites.

I got this and also Allied General and Pacific General and Fantasy General... and yeah the graphics for these games, like most DOS games, are way outta date but, still not that bad.

The line I got on these games is interesting and fun to play but not the historicity of a game like TOAW. Recommended for new players to strategy wargaming but, not blatantly simple games and there is enough there to keep a player's interest for a while.

So, maybe I will find the time some day to get into these.

Maybe <g>,

Z

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: Zaratoughda

I have been playing a bit with Inaki's FP War scenario
Against the computer, I got a significant victory in large part as Elmer did not defened Sedan and I was able to waltz in. Would be tough to do better than a draw I would imagine in PBEM.

Z

I just checked this scenario. There are no PO tracks set, hence Elmer's apathic behaviour

[Zaratoughda]

Hmmmm.... the French formations all have objectives... some of them multiple ones... at least in the version XIX I got from Rugged Defense.... it's just that none of them have Sedan as an objective.

Z

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: Raver508

Hmm... I thought the game was now abandonware and able to be downloaded for free, but that doesnt seem to be the case?

If you haven’t done so already, you might take a look at Advanced Tactics (it’s listed on this forum under “New Releases From Matrix Games”). Looks and plays much like PG/AG but is much more advanced as far as features and scenario design. There are a number of AARs, custom scenarios and alternate graphics. AT also has a random game generator for those days when you just don’t feel like getting whipped in a PBM game.

Actually I’m a bit surprised that no one has ported the PG graphics to AT. The original game board version of Blitzkrieg has been done in AT . . . looks real nice.

Regards, RhinoBones

[rhinobones]

ORIGINAL: Zaratoughda

Hmmmm.... the French formations all have objectives... some of them multiple ones... at least in the version XIX I got from Rugged Defense....

I’ve played this as a PBM game a number of times. Quick turn around, fun and can be won from either side. Nice thing about this game is the French, who are normally on the defensive, have the first turn. This means that the aggressor, the Prussians, cannot make a “killer” first move unless the French are themselves aggressive. This element alone seems to make the scenario quite variable in outcome.

Regards, RhinoBones

[Zaratoughda]

Silvanski... maybe you know the answer to this...

Looking at the scenario again, other than adding some additional objectives to the PO tracks (so that places like Sedan are defended).... the only major thing that can be changed is to change the formation orders.

And, looking at the manual, it appears the 'attack' and 'defend' orders are identical. If any objectives become enemy controlled, then a 'defend' order reverts to an 'attack' order, and if all objectives become friendly controlled, then an 'attack' order reverts to a 'defend' order.

In other words, doesn't matter which of these orders you give to a formation... it's all the same.

UNLESS (!).... the change in orders is based on a CHANGE of control. In this case, you could give a formation a 'defend' order when starting a scenario with one or more objectives enemy controlled, and it would not change to an 'attack' order until another one of it's objectives changed control.

But, this is just speculation on my part and I would guess it is just a matter of who controls objectives at the start of a turn... in which case the 'attack' and 'defend' orders are identical.

But, I don't know so... maybe you know.

In any case, the biggest problem I have seen with Elmer... is he leaves himself open to getting surrounded. Looking at the manual, there is attack/defend but then there is also secure/screen... and from the text it kinda looks like this is better AI for Elmer to not get himself surrounded... maybe was designed specifically with that in mind.

But, again, I do not have any experience with this option and haven't seen it used much in the scenarios I have played. So, again, maybe you know <g>!

Z

[Silvanski]

ORIGINAL: Zaratoughda

Silvanski... maybe you know the answer to this...

Looking at the scenario again, other than adding some additional objectives to the PO tracks (so that places like Sedan are defended).... the only major thing that can be changed is to change the formation orders.

And, looking at the manual, it appears the 'attack' and 'defend' orders are identical.

According to how I understand it, formations on attack orders will switch to defend orders when all of their objectives are in friedly control- they will dig in and if unit density allows have second line units on T support. Also when retreating they even may blow bridges.

[Jeff Norton]

Link from the General Forum

tm.asp?m=1964692

There is still quite a fan-base out there for this gem.

[Zaratoughda]

Hmmm.... I DLed this one (PG2), maybe some day will install and give it a try.

From playing a couple scenarios (of the original PG)..... I would say that the PG series of games are to operational level computer games..... what Axis and Allies was to strategic level board games.

In other words..... not that historical (but, there is SOME historicity there), but otherwise can be a lot of fun (like Axis and Allies was).

Oh.... the other thing.... there is a bottomless pit of time one can spend on games like this so.... ya gotta choose what you spend your time with as nobody has infinite time.

Z

P.S. Oh, thanks for the link! At least worth taking a look at, maybe more than that.