Rallying

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 9:38 am

Okay, here's a question for the old war dogs amonst us...

What's the best time to rally troops? Let's setup a little scenario here.

A squad comes under fire and gets a 5% supression rating. Do you rally before taking your shot and thus improve the odds of getting a hit, or do you wait until after that first shot, just in case they take further supression? After all, once you attempt to rally and fail, that's it! At what point do you say, okay, it's worth the gamble?

black_feather · Post by **black_feather** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:03 am

It has to be better to rally before you fire because if you hit your target they are far less likely to fire back at you.

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 11:46 am

Originally posted by black_feather
It has to be better to rally before you fire because if you hit your target they are far less likely to fire back at you.

You make a good point, but how much does it affect the accuracy? There's quite a few factors, it seems, that need to be taken into account on when to hit that "R" key. Such as, if you can reasonably expect to kill your target on the shot, and get the corresponding reduction in supression, do you save that rally attempt for after? What if you have two enemies you are firing at? Fire at the first one, hope for a kill, and save the rally for after the second takes his shot at you and adds to your supression?

The way I look at it, if I'm facing a number of enemy units, at least two of which have a pretty good likelyhood of giving me significant supression, is the accuracy factor large enough to try for a rally from say an 4 to a 2? An 8 to a 4? A 12 to a 6? And risk losing the chance to rally after the others fire on you if it's unsuccessful?

john g · Post by **john g** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 3:12 am

Originally posted by Bernie

You make a good point, but how much does it affect the accuracy? There's quite a few factors, it seems, that need to be taken into account on when to hit that "R" key. Such as, if you can reasonably expect to kill your target on the shot, and get the corresponding reduction in supression, do you save that rally attempt for after? What if you have two enemies you are firing at? Fire at the first one, hope for a kill, and save the rally for after the second takes his shot at you and adds to your supression?

The way I look at it, if I'm facing a number of enemy units, at least two of which have a pretty good likelyhood of giving me significant supression, is the accuracy factor large enough to try for a rally from say an 4 to a 2? An 8 to a 4? A 12 to a 6? And risk losing the chance to rally after the others fire on you if it's unsuccessful?

If you are playing against the ai, you get a potential 3 op fires each time you shoot that unit. It will degrade faster than you can rally it back. The trick is using a unit to unmask the enemy then move up units that the enemy will not shoot at. If infantry are shooting at your infantry, move up tanks and hose them with mgs. If AT guns are shooting at your tanks, move up infantry to hose them with rifle fire and mgs. Don't use units that the ai will shoot back at effectively. Along with this you want to restrict the return fire to one type at a time if possible, by using terrain and smoke restrict the numbers and types of units op firing. The worst thing you can see is infantry mixed with mgs and at guns, they can shoot back effectively at any enemy in front of them.

Another trick is to switch from one unit to another, fire one unit, gaining targeting percentage, accept the op fire, then switch to another firing unit at the same target, get an increase in targeting and when the enemy shoot at the new firing unit they lose their targetting bonus towards the first unit. After that unit has been shot at switch back to the first unit, or to a third unit etc.

Op firing units will build up suppression each time they op fire, it is slow but you can eventually stop them from firing if you give them enough low percentage shots. From my testing throwing hordes of trucks in front of armored cars, the ACs stopped shooting when they had accumulated about 30 suppression, but that was after dozens of shots.
thanks, John.

voyrep · Post by **voyrep** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:28 am

Rally and shoot!
Your unit might be history in a few seconds...
then you will have no unit to rally
I do not see any reason save your rally for later

Voyrep

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:50 am

Use your own judgement... :rolleyes:

What I mean is that every situation is different. And don't forget that you might use up your Co's rallypoints also. They might be needed badly by another squad.

/Lars

black_feather · Post by **black_feather** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:33 pm

If your going to get slaughtered retreat and wait untill you can take the position, there is no point in losing good unit unless you have to, but if its one on one I'd always rally first then fire.

Antonius · Post by **Antonius** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:29 pm

Did a search through the manual about the word "suppression", found what I was looking for well before the end of the file and yet had to hit the next button about 20 times first !

Suppression is probably the one element, along with experience and morale, that is most frequently used in the game's numerous checks and calculations.

Ever since I realized that I always think twice before I rally any unit:
is it critical that the next shot has max effect or that I can try rallying the unit after it draws returning fire ? is by the way this next shot likely to draw returning fire ? how effective is that returning fire likely to be ? has my unit's inherent leader falied a previous check ? has the platton/company commander used his rally capacity ?

For instance, if my platoon is assaulting an ennemy position, I believe that rallying the squad giving covering fire is often less critical than being able to rally the one that will move adjacent to the ennemy or into his hex... but I may also decide that the covering fire is so critical that no one will move adjacent unless I could first get 6 good shots at the ennemy.

In short: that was a hell of a good question !

Bernie · Post by **Bernie** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:50 pm

Originally posted by Antonius
Did a search through the manual about the word "suppression", found what I was looking for well before the end of the file and yet had to hit the next button about 20 times first !

Suppression is probably the one element, along with experience and morale, that is most frequently used in the game's numerous checks and calculations.

Ever since I realized that I always think twice before I rally any unit:
is it critical that the next shot has max effect or that I can try rallying the unit after it draws returning fire ? is by the way this next shot likely to draw returning fire ? how effective is that returning fire likely to be ? has my unit's inherent leader falied a previous check ? has the platton/company commander used his rally capacity ?

For instance, if my platoon is assaulting an ennemy position, I believe that rallying the squad giving covering fire is often less critical than being able to rally the one that will move adjacent to the ennemy or into his hex... but I may also decide that the covering fire is so critical that no one will move adjacent unless I could first get 6 good shots at the ennemy.

In short: that was a hell of a good question !

Exactly my point, there are so many factors that go into making the choice to rally that I wanted to hear from others in this forum what works best for them.

Another factor that no one yet has brought up, but which I've seen in the game, is that units that are supressed, even a tiny bit, lose a significant amount of spotting ability. Have you ever rallyed a supressed unit only to have an enemy unit "pop up out of nowhere", usually close by? If you hadn't rallyed just then, would that unit have wiped yours out on the next shot? It's not always about shooting, sometimes it's about seeing too. Even if the unit you rally has no shots left, the enemy they might suddenly "see" might also now be seen by a more distant unit, one which CAN take a shot at them.

And yes, I know it was a good question...now let's see what good answers we can come up with.

11Bravo · Post by **11Bravo** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:30 pm

In general, what works best for me is to rally ASAP. My men benefit from the accuracy of their fire during their turn. When it is the enemy's turn, suppression is not always a bad thing. It seems to make our men harder to hit, and makes them retreat faster (which I prefer over casualties, my reserves can plug the holes).