Guns inside buildings

[TheTomDude]

Hello

I asked myself why it is not possible to place guns inside building like it was done during WW2. At least PAK40 and smaller should be placeable inside buildings at the beginning of a round. It was possible in a few Mods for CC5.
Is this patchable ? That would be great.

I would always have loved to see tanks going through buildings (or hiding inside buildings for an ambush), like it was possible in Steel Panthers. Not sure if the code allows this.
But that's maybe an idea for a mod, not a patch, right? [;)]

[berndn]

I can place smaller guns in buildings. It depends on the gun size and the place inside the building and maybe some map coding ?
Funniest was placing one of the smaller guns in a steeple (4 floor [:)] ).

[TheTomDude]

ORIGINAL: berndn

I can place smaller guns in buildings. It depends on the gun size and the place inside the building and maybe some map coding ?
Funniest was placing one of the smaller guns in a steeple (4 floor [:)] ).

Only tried it a few times with PAK38 and 40 and it didn't work. Will have to try out more then. Thx

[Pzt_Serk]

the US 57 mm gun can be placed in buildings depending of the interior walls. IIRC, placing a gun in a building will always be at ground level, no matter how many floor there is, so it might be tricky when testing LOS at deploy.

[squadleader_id]

AFAIK, since units are automatically considered to be occupying the top level of multi-level buildings...you can only place guns on level 1 buildings.
This was the general rule for CC5 and most mods...CMIIW.
You can place guns on the 4th floor of buildings, Bernd?

[berndn]

I did it. I'm playing as allied and will report the map where it's possible. Screenshots with printscreen key or do I need an external program ?

[TheReal_Pak40]

TomDude,

A Pak40 is a rather large gun. It's not going to fit through your average door. There's really no way to put it inside unless you blow a hole through the wall, which I'm sure happened, but then there would have to some major code re-write to allow this to happen in CC.

I would like to have AT guns in general be harder to spot and kill. A well camouflaged defense would be the norm for AT guns. This should make them hard to spot, even after the first shot. You might see a puff of smoke but spotting the actual gun should harder, especially under a tree line. If this was done in the game then we wouldn't feel the need to put AT guns inside buildings so much.

[Platoon_Michael]

I use UOSU for a screenshot program.
I'd like to see that screenshot.
I tried putting a mortor crew on one of the 4 story steeples that was destroyed (no roof) and the team wouldnt fire.
The reason said "in house"

[crushingleeek_slith]

1) yeah, true. I don't expect 57mm guns to do anything at all in their lifetime, i only wish their sad lifespan come be slightly increased.
(The average lifespan of a 57mm gun in WaR after firing its first shot is something crazy like 5.7 seconds. lol)

I agree with pak40, they should be modelled to more accurately reflect well-concealed firing spots. So let the poor gun shoot like 3 or 4 more rounds before it bites the dust. ALSO, it would be really cool if i could detach the AT crew from the gun at will. So use the gun, abandon it, go hide in a house, and come back later and re-use the gun. This would make choosing AT guns more worthwhile.

2) maybe i just never got this, but does anyone ever sometimes feel like the starting position for a unit is one soldier away from being perfect? All the soldiers are well placed, inside the house, except one is off somewhere you don't want it. Then you play tug-of-war with the computer to try to get it just right and it never does.  Can we add the ability to move individual soldiers around?

3) Its really hard for me to guess when a unit placed in the snow is going to dig in or not. I am getting better at it, but can there be a way to let me know before battle begins whether the unit will dig in, or just lie there and get torn up at the start?

4) Related to point#2, when i move a unit into a building during the actual battle, its such a struggle to get all the right men in place along the windows. Can we possibly move individual units?

[squadleader_id]

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek

1) yeah, true. I don't expect 57mm guns to do anything at all in their lifetime, i only wish their sad lifespan come be slightly increased.
(The average lifespan of a 57mm gun in WaR after firing its first shot is something crazy like 5.7 seconds. lol)

I agree with pak40, they should be modelled to more accurately reflect well-concealed firing spots. So let the poor gun shoot like 3 or 4 more rounds before it bites the dust. ALSO, it would be really cool if i could detach the AT crew from the gun at will. So use the gun, abandon it, go hide in a house, and come back later and re-use the gun. This would make choosing AT guns more worthwhile.

Put AT guns on ambush...then if a target comes into LOS...give them the defend order.
They will last longer (ie: remain hidden).
If you manually give the ATG fire orders...the ATG will be spotted right away.

In CCWAR...be careful when giving ATGs the defend order...make sure there are no nearby enemy infantry or the crew will start shooting at nearby infantry using rifles giving away their position [:-]

[Platoon_Michael]

2) maybe i just never got this, but does anyone ever sometimes feel like the starting position for a unit is one soldier away from being perfect? All the soldiers are well placed, inside the house, except one is off somewhere you don't want it. Then you play tug-of-war with the computer to try to get it just right and it never does. Can we add the ability to move individual soldiers around?

Keep clicking untill you find said soldier using the popup window that shows the soldier (F7 key)
then relocate him.When having the same problem during deployment find the leader and move him,it changes the grouping a lot better sometimes.

Same for #4 but harder when shot at.

[TheReal_Pak40]

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

Put AT guns on ambush...then if a target comes into LOS...give them the defend order.
They will last longer (ie: remain hidden).
If you manually give the ATG fire orders...the ATG will be spotted right away.

You think we don't already do this? Come on, give us some credit, we're not newbies to CC.[:)]

our point is that even you do above said actions, your AT gun will likely get off 1, maybe 2 rounds before it is KO'd. Mortars and armored vehicles suddenly have an uncanny accuracy when firing at an AT gun. I see tanks missing each other from 200 yards all the time in this game but as soon as a tank fires at an AT gun - boom, almost guaranteed hit and it doesn't matter if you gun is dug in or in a gun pit or trench.

[Pzt_Serk]

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

AFAIK, since units are automatically considered to be occupying the top level of multi-level buildings...you can only place guns on level 1 buildings.
This was the general rule for CC5 and most mods...CMIIW.
You can place guns on the 4th floor of buildings, Bernd?

Squadleader,

it is always possible to place small ATG's in building with 3 or 4 floors. But they will be considered positioned at ground level with the according los. If you have inafantry at the same position, you will have the LOS from 4rth floor but not with the gun. Bring some 57mm atg' to the grufflenge battle and test it out.

Serk.

[TheReal_Pak40]

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek

2) maybe i just never got this, but does anyone ever sometimes feel like the starting position for a unit is one soldier away from being perfect? All the soldiers are well placed, inside the house, except one is off somewhere you don't want it. Then you play tug-of-war with the computer to try to get it just right and it never does.  Can we add the ability to move individual soldiers around?

Well, usually this is because there's a limited amount of window space(or at least that's how I justify it). It's kind of hard having six soldiers firing out of two windows. But, usually I am able drag and drop and get a different placement.

Also, when setting up infantry in buildings at the beginning, manually place them on ambush mode, then rotate them to defend the desired side of the building and they will automatically be replaced to the appropriate side of the building.

3) Its really hard for me to guess when a unit placed in the snow is going to dig in or not. I am getting better at it, but can there be a way to let me know before battle begins whether the unit will dig in, or just lie there and get torn up at the start?

I think I read about this in the manual. If a unit is "defending" then they will be dug in. In operation or campaign mode, a unit is considered defending if it spent the previous turn on that map without being attacked. (I think). In any case, I think once you go from the battle force screen it will flash a message with one of 6 possibilities: Axis attack, allies attack, allies defend, axis defend, meeting engagement, or battle continues.

let's say you're defending as allies on the 1st turn of the campaign on map "X". You will start this battle dug in; but you fight your opponent to a standstill where neither of you is routed or destroyed. On the next turn, you both will be fighting on the same map but you will get the "battle continues" message before deployment and you will not be dug in this time.

anyway, I think I have this correct. Maybe someone else can clarify or confirm.

[crushingleeek_slith]

Well, usually this is because there's a limited amount of window space(or at least that's how I justify it). It's kind of hard having six soldiers firing out of two windows. But, usually I am able drag and drop and get a different placement.

That's very reasonable logic. I just wish I could manually put the soldiers that "can't see" at the next available window for max firepower.

Also, when setting up infantry in buildings at the beginning, manually place them on ambush mode, then rotate them to defend the desired side of the building and they will automatically be replaced to the appropriate side of the building.

Yes, I do have this strategy down; I'm just being a little more picky. I'd like to control where every BAR/.30cal/mg42/bazooka/panzerschrek is without compromising the fire of riflemen.

[crushingleeek_slith]

I think I read about this in the manual. If a unit is "defending" then they will be dug in. In operation or campaign mode, a unit is considered defending if it spent the previous turn on that map without being attacked. (I think). In any case, I think once you go from the battle force screen it will flash a message with one of 6 possibilities: Axis attack, allies attack, allies defend, axis defend, meeting engagement, or battle continues.

Thanks for the explanation. I think I'm asking a slightly different question though; I know which scenarios i am allowed to dig in. I am just less certain, for example, if I place my unit in a forest, near a steep slope, or near a road, or near brush, sometimes the unit will not dig in. I am assuming this is because some of the soldiers are situated on terrains that are not "dig-in-able". This kind of goes back to my wish to move individual soldiers. Haven't you ever placed a rifle squad in a concealed forest on a map you are defending, (and put them on ambush or defend), only to find when you start the battle, that they didn't dig in?

[Pzt_Serk]

yeah I see what you mean. I'm usually looking for the opposite, trying to position my bazooka team and ATG's in places i'm sure they wont dig in since the trench and gun pits only reveal their position and rendering them useless, especially gun pits.

Also, matrix should take alook at some large permanent gun pits like in meyerode that can't accept ATG's, not even a 57mm ATG.

[crushingleeek_slith]

yeah I see what you mean. I'm usually looking for the opposite, trying to position my bazooka team and ATG's in places i'm sure they wont dig in since the trench and gun pits only reveal their position and rendering them useless, especially gun pits.

 
for your problem, you could just set your units up, place a "Crawl" order for them to somewhere very close to where you have set them up. this initial crawl order should prevent them from digging in, i think.
 
But I need to know that my boys will hide in a trench!!

[Pzt_Serk]

ORIGINAL: crushingleeek

yeah I see what you mean. I'm usually looking for the opposite, trying to position my bazooka team and ATG's in places i'm sure they wont dig in since the trench and gun pits only reveal their position and rendering them useless, especially gun pits.

for your problem, you could just set your units up, place a "Crawl" order for them to somewhere very close to where you have set them up. this initial crawl order should prevent them from digging in, i think.

But I need to know that my boys will hide in a trench!!

Just tried that out, does not seem to work.

[squadleader_id]

ORIGINAL: TheReal_Pak40

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

Put AT guns on ambush...then if a target comes into LOS...give them the defend order.
They will last longer (ie: remain hidden).
If you manually give the ATG fire orders...the ATG will be spotted right away.

You think we don't already do this? Come on, give us some credit, we're not newbies to CC.[:)]

our point is that even you do above said actions, your AT gun will likely get off 1, maybe 2 rounds before it is KO'd. Mortars and armored vehicles suddenly have an uncanny accuracy when firing at an AT gun. I see tanks missing each other from 200 yards all the time in this game but as soon as a tank fires at an AT gun - boom, almost guaranteed hit and it doesn't matter if you gun is dug in or in a gun pit or trench.

Sorry [;)]...from your description...I just guessed that you're firing ATGs manually.
Well concealed ATGs set on defend should not be discovered and destroyed so easily. Are you deploying your ATGs in open fields? [:D]

ORIGINAL: Pzt_Serk

ORIGINAL: squadleader_id

AFAIK, since units are automatically considered to be occupying the top level of multi-level buildings...you can only place guns on level 1 buildings.
This was the general rule for CC5 and most mods...CMIIW.
You can place guns on the 4th floor of buildings, Bernd?

Squadleader,

it is always possible to place small ATG's in building with 3 or 4 floors. But they will be considered positioned at ground level with the according los. If you have inafantry at the same position, you will have the LOS from 4rth floor but not with the gun. Bring some 57mm atg' to the grufflenge battle and test it out.

Serk.

Yup! Sorry, I stand corrected...
Actually you can do this also in stock CC5 and CC4.
I guess I missed this detail 'cause I'm just not a fan of small ATGs...AT Infantry is more useful than small ATGs IMO [:D]