Question

[JudgeDredd]

I've read about the camera...I was wondering is it completelt moveable or is it limited?

One of the things in a strat game of this nature that gets me is the lack of camera angle in that the devs decide to limit it.

As an example, if anyone has Combat Mission Shock Force, that's what I expect from camera movement. I do not want it limited by the devs...especially in the vertical axis.

Thx

[SeanD]

The only things that are limited is the ability to zoom out far or zoom in really close (but I'm currently looking into a way to modify this). Additionally, you can only rotate the camera to just above parallel with the ground (you can't rotate the camera down to be right next to the shoulder of a merc).

You can rotate around as much as you want.

[ShadoWarrior]

Sean, part of the problem is that a lot of the basic features of the game are not documented. Adjusting the camera angle and zoom is not in the manual, nor in the accompanying disk files. I didn't know the game had a quicksave/quickload feature until I saw the tip in one of the loading screens. Likewise needing to hold down the CTRL key to use a medkit (which is not intuitive, nor the way the old JA2 worked). I haven't tested it yet, but I presume that I also need to use CTRL to be able to taget a patch of ground with a grenade (to kill unseen-but-heard enemies)? Not including such information in the manual(s) and readme files is a serious omission.

[JudgeDredd]

Disappointed with the lack of camera movement to be honest. Maybe I'm spoiled by CMSF, but I like to be able to get down in the dirt so I can get a better view of what's around. Whenever I came across these limited camera angles in the past, I always found my head turning and adjusting, trying to eek some more view out of the system.

Sorry...change it and I'll give this one a go. I'm not being a baby here. I do actually know of these limited camera angles and know I hate them.

[ShadoWarrior]

I've not found any limitation in camera viewing angles. The only limits I've seen is that I cannot zoom out as far I'd like, nor zoom in close enough to see fine detail on the merc models.

[SlickWilhelm]

ORIGINAL: ShadoWarrior

Likewise needing to hold down the CTRL key to use a medkit (which is not intuitive, nor the way the old JA2 worked).

Hi Shadow Warrior, this is stated in the HG manual on P.14, so it is documented. Not that I remembered to bring any med kits with me the first time out, mind you! [:D]

[JudgeDredd]

Well, from what I gather from the above statement, you are limited in the vertical.

[SlickWilhelm]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Well, from what I gather from the above statement, you are limited in the vertical.

Correct, I wish we could get the camera to go down to the mercs' shoulder level, and below. That would make it easier to figure out the high and low points of the topography.

[dodger bullet]

This was taken from another thread.

But I haven't really experimented in how to make it so that you can see yer MERC'S faces and have an OVER TO SHOULDER POV. Being the game in a 3D terrain, any vantage point other than the TOPDOWN -- is extremely vital.

In yer system.cfg, change the following: 

[ul][ul]
• r_hcamera_acceleration = "200.030"
  r_hcamera_auto_camera = "1"
  r_hcamera_border = "10.0000"
  r_hcamera_border_enabled = "1"
  r_hcamera_deceleration = "200.000"
  r_hcamera_fov = "0.540000"
  r_hcamera_inertion = "1"
  r_hcamera_max_angle = "2.00000"
  r_hcamera_max_height = "50.0000"
  r_hcamera_min_angle = "0.010000"
  r_hcamera_min_height = "0.50000"
  r_hcamera_mouse_invert = "0"
  r_hcamera_mouse_speed = "100.000"
  r_hcamera_rot_speed = "2.00000"
  r_hcamera_speed = "100.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_acceleration = "900.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_deceleration = "900.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_speed = "0.950000"

[/ul][/ul]

[NobillyT]

What I've noticed after messing with the camera settings in the .cfg file is that it would be nice if the draw distance could be increased somehow. As it is bringing the camera to the shoulder level results in seeing a bunch of black where the draw distance horizon starts. I realize that the draw distances were limited to reduce the hardware requirements, but I think my 2 year old graphics card (GeForce 8800 GTX) could handle a lot larger drawing distance, and I'm sure a lot of other people with cards a little bit less powerful and similar cards (and of course ones with more powerful cards) could stand to have a larger draw distance too.

[milkweg]

ORIGINAL: ShadoWarrior

Sean, part of the problem is that a lot of the basic features of the game are not documented. Adjusting the camera angle and zoom is not in the manual, nor in the accompanying disk files. I didn't know the game had a quicksave/quickload feature until I saw the tip in one of the loading screens. Likewise needing to hold down the CTRL key to use a medkit (which is not intuitive, nor the way the old JA2 worked). I haven't tested it yet, but I presume that I also need to use CTRL to be able to taget a patch of ground with a grenade (to kill unseen-but-heard enemies)? Not including such information in the manual(s) and readme files is a serious omission.

You don't have to press ctrl to use a medikit, you can also just click on the medikit in the lower left and use it.

[milkweg]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Disappointed with the lack of camera movement to be honest.

Could be better but it sure beats JA2s camera. That game was 2D sprites so you couldn't rotate the camera at all.

[milkweg]

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm




Correct, I wish we could get the camera to go down to the mercs' shoulder level, and below. That would make it easier to figure out the high and low points of the topography.

This is not a physics simulation game. It is an abstracted strat/RPG game. If your Merc can see the target then you will see the red enemy icon, hitting the target is based on chance to hit like in an RPG and not physics of the terrain, although I expect terrain is calculated into the chance to hit also. But lining up a shot with an over the shoulder camera is not going to increase your chance to hit. What's more important is distance to target, position of Merc (kneeling, prone etc., choosing aim mode, and the Mercs ability stats.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: milkweg

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm




Correct, I wish we could get the camera to go down to the mercs' shoulder level, and below. That would make it easier to figure out the high and low points of the topography.

This is not a physics simulation game. It is an abstracted strat/RPG game. If your Merc can see the target then you will see the red enemy icon, hitting the target is based on chance to hit like in an RPG and not physics of the terrain, although I expect terrain is calculated into the chance to hit also. But lining up a shot with an over the shoulder camera is not going to increase your chance to hit. What's more important is distance to target, position of Merc (kneeling, prone etc., choosing aim mode, and the Mercs ability stats.

Well I would've liked the "shoulder cam" (or something close) because I like to get a feel for the surroundings. Whenever I've played a game with these camera angle restrictions, I've often found I'm just peeved when I load it up because I see the shortcomings in the camera.

Besides, CMSF did it, so it's do-able. And CMSF doesn't take a big hit in CPU for it either.

Also, it can be a pain to go down to that level..but I'ma firm believer the player should have the choice.

Does anyone know if Dodger_Bullets idea works? If it does, I'm very tempted to pick this up. I haven't played a game like this for some time. I like the idea of managing my finances and hiring/firing.

[ShadoWarrior]

Dodger bullet's changes to the config file have been very helpful with regards to the camera. I can now zoom out the view so as to see almost the whole map. It's great. (Yes, I know about the 'M' option, but the 3D perspective view is much better.) Alas, you still cannot do a zoomed-in look "over the shoulder".

[Chris Bisson]

ORIGINAL: dodger bullet

This was taken from another thread.

But I haven't really experimented in how to make it so that you can see yer MERC'S faces and have an OVER TO SHOULDER POV. Being the game in a 3D terrain, any vantage point other than the TOPDOWN -- is extremely vital.

In yer system.cfg, change the following: 

[ul][ul]
• r_hcamera_acceleration = "200.030"
  r_hcamera_auto_camera = "1"
  r_hcamera_border = "10.0000"
  r_hcamera_border_enabled = "1"
  r_hcamera_deceleration = "200.000"
  r_hcamera_fov = "0.540000"
  r_hcamera_inertion = "1"
  r_hcamera_max_angle = "2.00000"
  r_hcamera_max_height = "50.0000"
  r_hcamera_min_angle = "0.010000"
  r_hcamera_min_height = "0.50000"
  r_hcamera_mouse_invert = "0"
  r_hcamera_mouse_speed = "100.000"
  r_hcamera_rot_speed = "2.00000"
  r_hcamera_speed = "100.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_acceleration = "900.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_deceleration = "900.000"
  r_hcamera_zoom_speed = "0.950000"

[/ul][/ul]

I have tried these settings and now the camera angle is much better. I can "almost" see the lay of the land with this. I just wish I could lower it a bit more toward horizontal setting for the hills and valleys to be obvious.

I kept getting my troops mauled in the first battle, mostly due to not knowing there is a hill between my troops and the enemy, or thinking I was in cover and that not being the case. Now with the better viewing angle I can clean up the map much easier.

[milkweg]

I'm finding now in my 3rd sector I could do with more vertical camera control because the terrain is more hilly so can't see very far ahead. Will try this camera mod now.

[leastonh1]

Hmmm, I'm interested in buying this game, but the criticism of the camera is stopping me at the moment. One of my fave games was Silent Storm. The camera in that game wasn't bad, but was let down by not being able to angle it horizontally enough for my tastes. Isometric is fine, but to be able to see at least almost horizontally would make a huge difference. How does this compare? Same, better or worse?

If the camera can be tweaked enough to please the JA fans, I'll probably go for it.

Cheers,
Jim

PS Sorry for the hijack JD [:D]

[milkweg]

With that camera mod the camera is now good.