Defending China in stock

[Lecivius]

In an open Stock game Scenario 15, with no rules regarding Manchuria, is there any good tips on defending China? Or is it just a lost cause?

[Quixote]

With the Manchucko troops in play, Northern China is pretty much hopeless. You can delay a bit, but that's about it. In the Central and South, if you were able to get some of your units into Canton and anchor your flank in that nice urban hex there, then you probably have enough to hold at Changsha for a while - at least until your opponent finishes up in the North. It's a time-consuming spot to flank well, so give it a shot, and make sure you're covered against paradrops in your backfield. Good luck - you'll probably need it, but the Pacific is a big place, and you can always have fun somewhere else while you take a beating in China.

[Lecivius]

I'm getting schooled in how effective the Japanese can be.  I had no idea the SRA could be taken so fast, and China as well, and it's not even 42 yet [X(]

[Shark7]

Unless you have a house rule that any units that enter the Chinese theatre (Allied or Japanese) must change HQ to the respective Chinese theatre HQ then defending North China is next to impossible.  In my game we have this rule so that so far I've only been able to move a few air units, 1 aviation rgt, and 1 Inf division to bolster Northern China from Manchuko (along with a couple of cavalry units of smaller size). 
 
I won't be able to move much more without activating the Soviets.  It brings balance to the chinese campaign so that I can't over-run my opponant there.

[niceguy2005]

I find Changsa to be critical to China's defense.  Mostly I would advise, don't get out maneuvered and don't try anything weird that is going to cost you a lot in supplies, just dig in, stay in front of the enemy and try to hold on.   The further into China Japan goes the harder their supply situation becomes.  All you have to do is play for time.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

I find Changsa to be critical to China's defense.  Mostly I would advise, don't get out maneuvered and don't try anything weird that is going to cost you a lot in supplies, just dig in, stay in front of the enemy and try to hold on.   The further into China Japan goes the harder their supply situation becomes.  All you have to do is play for time.

the further into China Japan goes the harder the CHINESE supply situation will become! [;)]

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

I find Changsa to be critical to China's defense.  Mostly I would advise, don't get out maneuvered and don't try anything weird that is going to cost you a lot in supplies, just dig in, stay in front of the enemy and try to hold on.   The further into China Japan goes the harder their supply situation becomes.  All you have to do is play for time.

the further into China Japan goes the harder the CHINESE supply situation will become! [;)]

Partly true. Losing Yenen and Changsa always hurts China, but in stock, Chungking, Chegtu and that other city with resources can supply a lot of what China needs to defend. Its a lot easier for units at Chunking to stay supplied than it is for Japan to get a good supply line all the way there.

[Lecivius]

What happens to Japanese held cities, that are not garrisoned properly?  Having never played Japan past 1942, I have no realistic idea.

[Barb]

I am also getting schooled about Japs capabilities in China. My opponent first tried to take Changsha with 7 Divisions, I hold it, but it was true meatgrinder for my troops. At the same time 8 other divisions concentrated in northern China,kicked me out of Yenen and are marching against Kungchang. Other troops are gathering agains Homan.
I am forced to shift troops here and there, but northern china is likely to be toast...

Lecivius
What happens to Japanese held cities, that are not garrisoned properly?  Having never played Japan past 1942, I have no realistic idea.

Runways and ports becomes damaged and repairs are eating supplies.

[Feinder]

Problem with China stock is that China is already at about a 20% supply deficit.  Furthermore, much of the supply production in China (thru resource centers), is located forward; so that when these forward cities are taken (not even taken, just contentious will turn off the resource/supply production), things can go from "slowly dying" to "accute arrest".
 
Frankly, I can't offer a solution to China in stock: i've had my arse handed to me every time (largely because of "land KB"), and I don't really think it's defensible against an experience Japanese player except thru strongly limiting house rules (for both sides).
 
-F-

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
In an open Stock game Scenario 15, with no rules regarding Manchuria, is there any good tips on defending China? Or is it just a lost cause?

With no house rules regarding Manchuria, and a Japanese player that can walk and talk at the same time, China would be a lost cause. But in general, the best way to defend in China is "attack, attack, attack!!!" Of course, this should be proceeded by "talk, talk, talk" to ensure that proper house rules are first in place regarding Manchuria!!! [:D]

[RUPD3658]

If you go Alamo at Chungking it is almost impossible to take. In my current game I started with the assumtion that I would lose all of China and anything was a bonus. I managed to shock attack isolated Jap units that advanced too far and scored some points.

Make sure you do not allow units to be surrounded and forced to surrender. This scores too many VPs for Japan. Better to pull back.

There are several SEAC HQ assigned units that start in Yenan. I pulled these back into India by air and land. This helped India's defense and also lessened the strain on the Chinese supply situation.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

If you go Alamo at Chungking it is almost impossible to take. In my current game I started with the assumtion that I would lose all of China and anything was a bonus. I managed to shock attack isolated Jap units that advanced too far and scored some points.

Make sure you do not allow units to be surrounded and forced to surrender. This scores too many VPs for Japan. Better to pull back.

There are several SEAC HQ assigned units that start in Yenan. I pulled these back into India by air and land. This helped India's defense and also lessened the strain on the Chinese supply situation.

My former opponents found this to be true. If you don't let your Chinese army become too fragmented, give up ground to keep your troops together and give a fighting fallback and form a line around Chegtu, Chunking, Kunming, China becomes very tough. I was able to hold that line and repel multiple attempts to breach and flank. China needs air support though. I used many transport squadrons to fly in additional supplies from India and fighters to keep the Japanese bombers at bay.

[jwilkerson]

I took Chungking once - but only because my opponent evacuated (probably wrongly). But I spent quite a while battleing the "ghost army of chungking" before I decided to stop.
[:D]

But yes, I agree taking Chungking itself is very tough unless the Chinese player helps.

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

I took Chungking once - but only because my opponent evacuated (probably wrongly). But I spent quite a while battleing the "ghost army of chungking" before I decided to stop.
[:D]

But yes, I agree taking Chungking itself is very tough unless the Chinese player helps.

What is that "ghost army" ?[&:]

[jwilkerson]

I was a plague (er a bug) that affected Japanese players who took Chungking! [:D]
(I got fixed later) [:)]

[Ambassador]

Thanks, if it's fixed, I don't care.[:)]

[anarchyintheuk]

Look at the bright side - enjoy those corsairs on your carriers in 2/43.

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Look at the bright side - enjoy those corsairs on your carriers in 2/43.

What carriers? [:'(]

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Look at the bright side - enjoy those corsairs on your carriers in 2/43.

What carriers? [:'(]

Your respawned carriers. [:D]