Grooming Units / Leaders for better Performance

[kaybayray]

Hey Guys [8D]

Was making my cruise through the forum and was reading the thread about Unit Transfers. A comment made about how moving units effects things such as Morale got me to thinking. Yeah I am still struggeling with just the basic strat and tactics of game play but I have noticed as I am playing the changes in Morale, Fatigue, among other categories that effect the performance of units as you play.

Knowing that many of you have some serious time into playing this game I thought you might be interested in explaining how it works and helping some of us relative newbs figure out how to improve units or perhaps how not to disrupt them over time. Not wanting to hijack the other thread I thought it best to start one here. I appoligize if there is already another thread on this topic. I dont recall finding one.

So can any of you relate things that you can do that will improve a unit? Things like what are some strats for rebuilding morale, or how do you go about inhancing a units ability to stick with missions and hit targets as well as improving the level of strike damage they produce? What are some things that should be avoided that cause performance problems for various categories? These are just some examples of things I am curious about and I hope others are as well.

I think I understand some of the more basic ideas such as how running a unit in mission after mission without a rest quickly degrades Morale. But I know there must be some mechanics for other stats. I am hoping some of you know and understand them and can share some of that with us. [8D]

Anyways, thanks for all the help you guys have always given and for what ever you will share on this topic.

Later,
KayBay [8D]

[Dobey455]

Hi KBR,
I'm hardly a veteran of this game, but I've been playing for a while now and I'll give you the tips that I wish I'd known at the start. Are you usuing the vanilla version? If so try to get one of the updated versions by JC. I'm using 106.5 which seems to have a more realistic OOB.

I play the Allies at the moment. so my tips will relate to them.

1) Simply be aware that for the first month or two the performance of the allies will be heart breakingly pathetic. Whole divisions of bombers will barely scratch targets, allied escorts will simply watch the bombers get ravaged and then be ravaged themselves. Take solice that they will learn quickly and get much better with time. Also initially it seemed to me that the British and Commonwealth are a little better than the USAAF. TBH I think allied aircrews are a little underated by the game for what they should be in late 1943.

2) Rest units to rebuild morale. I try to rotate units. ie I'll fly a strike with the 1st bomber Div on Monday and then the 3rd Div on Tue or Wed. By the time I fly the 1st Div again it has had a few days rest. Having said that, if you get enough good weather to level bomb more than 2 or 3 times week you'll be lucky. (this may change in Summer 1944. I don't know I re-started).

3) With Bomber Command (BC) use Pathfinder Sqns as leads, especially if you want to hit industry(point targets) rather than cities (area targets). In moonlight you will be more accurate but also more vulnerable to night fighters.

4) You've probably seen the "Dover bug" in the units in the Med. Don't set them to sweep or close escort or they will hit their targets then try to fly towards dover rather than home base.If you don't want to sweep use short legged planes like the Spit Vb. It will only fly a shrt distance towards Dover before running short of fuel and turning home.

5) Get to know your units. If the 100th BG (for example) has just been hammered make a note of it, rest it more, give it a few milk runs to build up the experience and morale of the crews. Same for new arrivals in theatre. If you are expecticting heavy opposition send your best escort units along.

6) Keep the Germans flying! Make them fly as much as posssible EVERY DAY. I like to fly a few coastal raids in the morning then a bunch of medium bombers then the heavies. When more forces are available consider a morning heavy raid, a few light reaids then an afternoon heavy raid.
This has several benefits. Firstly, the more the Germans fly the more fuel they burn. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the more thry fly the more fatigued they get....this will lead to a significant loss of performance, but you need to keep the pressure on! Make them fly at least once every day preferably more. If weather is bad carry the fight with your tacs and fighter bombers.

7) SWEEP! Note where the German fighters are scrambling from and hit them with strafing attacks, this can knock out a lot of enemy fighters but if you don't do a low level recon first you might find out the hard way that they have a LOT of flak there waiting for you.

I'll post a few more tips if you want. I know many of these aren't completely related to the OP but I don't know how much of this you know.
Like I say I'm hardly a veteran on this game so if anyone wants to correct anything or add anything then that'd be great.

[Hard Sarge]

one thing to remember, in the real world, after the raids of the 17th, the USAAF went short range for a good while, trying to build up numbers and morale and gain more fighter cover, as the player, you have some hindsight, so don't have do the raids of the 17th, but, the idea is still there, you also don't have to raid deep yet

make the coastal area your playground, until your ready

make the Med the killing ground, until the landing and breakout, and again, stay with in range of your fighters and you can overwelm anything, go deep, and you will get hammered (but early in the MED, the bombers can hold there own vs the It fighters, but those 109G6/R6s can hurt)

(in old game, one tactic is to try for heavy 109 losses in the south, the AI will try and replace and upgrade what it can with 109s, which in the long run, will cripple it in north, once most units have 109s it can't keep up with the needs, we have done some things with the upgrade path rules to stop this from happening)

I agree with the idea of keep the enemy flying, as many missions as you can force them, but, would say, to try and support your raids, you have some raids flying west to east, have something flying south to north though there same path, you want raids to cross paths when you can, get double duty from your fighters

also, don't get into the habit of say, 06:00, 12:00, 16:00 for your raids, you will let the enemy hit you and then land and refuel, and then be ready for another mass take off

if and when you can, you want the enemy, taking off, landing and then taking off again, in bits and peices

set traps

the enemy player, and the enemy AI will do so

Sweeps can be deadly, to both sides, short and sweet, not large, and never in built up areas, they can get hammered in a stafe loop if they get locked into a RR target (plus, you may plot them clear, but sweeps will drift towards the enemy, so it may "see" a enemy plane south of it's flight path, it will drift south, to try and engage, and once it starts, it may lock onto something you don't want it to)

[wernerpruckner]

ORIGINAL: kaybayray

Hey Guys [8D]

Was making my cruise through the forum and was reading the thread about Unit Transfers. A comment made about how moving units effects things such as Morale got me to thinking. Yeah I am still struggeling with just the basic strat and tactics of game play but I have noticed as I am playing the changes in Morale, Fatigue, among other categories that effect the performance of units as you play.

Knowing that many of you have some serious time into playing this game I thought you might be interested in explaining how it works and helping some of us relative newbs figure out how to improve units or perhaps how not to disrupt them over time. Not wanting to hijack the other thread I thought it best to start one here. I appoligize if there is already another thread on this topic. I dont recall finding one.

So can any of you relate things that you can do that will improve a unit? Things like what are some strats for rebuilding morale, or how do you go about inhancing a units ability to stick with missions and hit targets as well as improving the level of strike damage they produce? What are some things that should be avoided that cause performance problems for various categories? These are just some examples of things I am curious about and I hope others are as well.

I think I understand some of the more basic ideas such as how running a unit in mission after mission without a rest quickly degrades Morale. But I know there must be some mechanics for other stats. I am hoping some of you know and understand them and can share some of that with us. [8D]

Anyways, thanks for all the help you guys have always given and for what ever you will share on this topic.

Later,
KayBay [8D]

As Attacker:
you can fly a unit very often without any big morale drop, but you need to be careful about fatigue
morale goes down if you loose the leader or several pilots, or if you are not able to hit your target
morale goes up during resting, killing enemy A/C and successful missions
if you use a unit several times a day your fatigue will go up very fast and when you reach a certain limit the morale will go down fast!

as defender:
morale is lost if your unit is on alert all the time during day and night (fatigue will also be often high)
it is never good for a units morale if you loose A/C and pilots, the leader or if your A/F is attacked...also transfering your unit will give you a minus10 on morale
morale is restored with resting or good kills with only few missions
if you overuse a unit (you may be able to get the full unit up into the air more than 5 times a day) you will have a dead unit soon

[wernerpruckner]

ORIGINAL: Dobey

Hi KBR,
I'm hardly a veteran of this game, but I've been playing for a while now and I'll give you the tips that I wish I'd known at the start. Are you usuing the vanilla version? If so try to get one of the updated versions by JC. I'm using 106.5 which seems to have a more realistic OOB.

I play the Allies at the moment. so my tips will relate to them.

1) Simply be aware that for the first month or two the performance of the allies will be heart breakingly pathetic. Whole divisions of bombers will barely scratch targets, allied escorts will simply watch the bombers get ravaged and then be ravaged themselves. Take solice that they will learn quickly and get much better with time. Also initially it seemed to me that the British and Commonwealth are a little better than the USAAF. TBH I think allied aircrews are a little underated by the game for what they should be in late 1943.

2) Rest units to rebuild morale. I try to rotate units. ie I'll fly a strike with the 1st bomber Div on Monday and then the 3rd Div on Tue or Wed. By the time I fly the 1st Div again it has had a few days rest. Having said that, if you get enough good weather to level bomb more than 2 or 3 times week you'll be lucky. (this may change in Summer 1944. I don't know I re-started).

3) With Bomber Command (BC) use Pathfinder Sqns as leads, especially if you want to hit industry(point targets) rather than cities (area targets). In moonlight you will be more accurate but also more vulnerable to night fighters.

4) You've probably seen the "Dover bug" in the units in the Med. Don't set them to sweep or close escort or they will hit their targets then try to fly towards dover rather than home base.If you don't want to sweep use short legged planes like the Spit Vb. It will only fly a shrt distance towards Dover before running short of fuel and turning home.

5) Get to know your units. If the 100th BG (for example) has just been hammered make a note of it, rest it more, give it a few milk runs to build up the experience and morale of the crews. Same for new arrivals in theatre. If you are expecticting heavy opposition send your best escort units along.

6) Keep the Germans flying! Make them fly as much as posssible EVERY DAY. I like to fly a few coastal raids in the morning then a bunch of medium bombers then the heavies. When more forces are available consider a morning heavy raid, a few light reaids then an afternoon heavy raid.
This has several benefits. Firstly, the more the Germans fly the more fuel they burn. Secondly, and probably more importantly, the more thry fly the more fatigued they get....this will lead to a significant loss of performance, but you need to keep the pressure on! Make them fly at least once every day preferably more. If weather is bad carry the fight with your tacs and fighter bombers.

7) SWEEP! Note where the German fighters are scrambling from and hit them with strafing attacks, this can knock out a lot of enemy fighters but if you don't do a low level recon first you might find out the hard way that they have a LOT of flak there waiting for you.

I'll post a few more tips if you want. I know many of these aren't completely related to the OP but I don't know how much of this you know.
Like I say I'm hardly a veteran on this game so if anyone wants to correct anything or add anything then that'd be great.

1: depends on your playstyle
US heavies UK: your escorts are very short ranged, you can go well protected only against closer targets. But with a little risk you are able to go deep inland and destroy something big - but be aware that you may loose whole units
US medium bombers: tactical....
US Italy: pre Invasion work, Italian units are usually quite easy to kill
Commonwealth day: tactical
BC: most powerful weapon in 43, as long as you use it right!!

2: rotating is good late in war, in 43 you do not have enough forces in the 8th or 15th to do that
you need to fly whenever there are enough escorts ready and whenever the weather is good enough
BTW in real life the weather was much worse [:'(]

3: attack cities and/or industrial targets in cities!! do not waste to many units for pinpoint attacks!!
All raids should have a pathfinder as leading unit

4: if you know the range of the sweeping A/C you may go around the Dover/Belfast bug.....the target point should be close at the point when the units have to fly back to their base

5: milkruns will do wonders for a units morale
the thing with escorts...depends on playstyle of your opponent

6: YES!!

7: sweeping is dangerous if you do not have fresh recce, do not ( never ever!!) sweep Flak fortresses!!!

[harley]

ORIGINAL: swift
2: rotating is good late in war, in 43 you do not have enough forces in the 8th or 15th to do that
you need to fly whenever there are enough escorts ready and whenever the weather is good enough
BTW in real life the weather was much worse [:'(]

I can do something about the weather if it's such a problem. Lets see you bomb in 9/10ths every day...

[wernerpruckner]

I tend to ignore the weather over the target in the second half of 44.
For me a good weather over my own bases is much more important [:'(]

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge


Sweeps can be deadly, to both sides, short and sweet, not large, and never in built up areas, they can get hammered in a stafe loop if they get locked into a RR target (plus, you may plot them clear, but sweeps will drift towards the enemy, so it may "see" a enemy plane south of it's flight path, it will drift south, to try and engage, and once it starts, it may lock onto something you don't want it to)

This reminded me of sweepers getting sidetracked, after they've locked onto enemy a/c.

Can anything be done about this in the new version?

TS

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: swift

ORIGINAL: Dobey

Hi KBR,
I'm hardly a veteran of this game, but I've been playing for a while now and I'll give you the tips that I wish I'd known at the start. Are you usuing the vanilla version? If so try to get one of the updated versions by JC. I'm using 106.5 which seems to have a more realistic OOB.

I play the Allies at the moment. so my tips will relate to them.


2) Rest units to rebuild morale. I try to rotate units. ie I'll fly a strike with the 1st bomber Div on Monday and then the 3rd Div on Tue or Wed. By the time I fly the 1st Div again it has had a few days rest. Having said that, if you get enough good weather to level bomb more than 2 or 3 times week you'll be lucky. (this may change in Summer 1944. I don't know I re-started).

2: rotating is good late in war, in 43 you do not have enough forces in the 8th or 15th to do that
you need to fly whenever there are enough escorts ready and whenever the weather is good enough
BTW in real life the weather was much worse [:'(]

Swift;

Excellent answers! All of them.

I will add, IMHO...

I make a TO&E for all the commands.

Beginning in 1944

What I do for VIII rotation is,
Each Division is broken into 4x Wings of 3x Groups - paralleling the historic somewhat.
VIII FC is also broken into 4 wings of 4x Groups.
Everyday each Division is assigned a Wing target.

On the 1st of the month, it is the 1st Wings, 2nd = 2nd Wings, 3rd = 3rd Wings... 5th = 1st Wings, 6th = 2nd Wings, etc. Therefore I have 2 B-17 wings & 1 B-24 wing flying to target daily. So using a Modulo 4 for the day of the month determines who flies.

On bad weather days, only that day's Wings will be assigned missions. On some days I'll even assign missions that are constantly escorted missions and will probably be cancelled. Always, use Pathfinders units/groups and secondary targets. Most times one or two Wings will fly and the Axis will respond. Gotta keep the bad guys flying!

On GREAT weather days, I'll use up to three Wings from each Division. Never all, because you want to insure a reserve is available.

The three days rest between missions seems to keep the boys morale up, and
I'm constantly putting pressure on the enemy.

In fact I do something similar for all the various commands.
Bomber Cmd is 3 day, Fighter Cmd is 4 day ...

TSgt

After reading this it sure sounds more complicated than it is...[:)]

Just use pencil and paper!!!

[Hard Sarge]

This reminded me of sweepers getting sidetracked, after they've locked onto enemy a/c.

Can anything be done about this in the new version?

TS

not really, it pretty much is a WAD, and when done right, it is very helpful

[TechSgt]

HS;

Everyone seems to be avoiding this "performance grooming" issue.

After a unit, (4th, 56th, or 357th FG/VIII), gets some missions under its belt, do a well rested shuttle to it home base. We know the group will generally use the "most experienced" pilots for the shuttle.

Now, as the allied player, I have created a super group. Which as the base unit refills and gets experience, I shuttle back, refill, and detach again.

The det has its attendant detachment problems, but the super commander and pilots negate most of these issues.

The question is... Is this an Exploit?

During the war -- especially later -- all the groups were flying 'B' flights, and some even had 'C' flights. So in a weird way, this is representative of the USAF doing just that. My personal rule is to not do this before Jan '44.

I did notice elsewhere, that 'B' flights were being shown on the turn status displays. [&o]

Since, shuttles were a part of the historical, you can't just shut down shuttling, either.

It must be ALL fun doing this upgrade... [:D]

TS

[Hard Sarge]

Exploit

Big Time (PBEM game it should be part of the house rules in effect, or I think it normally is)

it would be much more fun, if I could spent my time playing the game, instead of what I am in the game looking for all the time

I really got a kick out of playing the PBEM games with Tanker, while it still had too much of the tester part to it, it was fun doing the plotting and waiting to see what happened

[kaybayray]

Hey Thanks Guys [8D]

Great info and insight for me... I will see what I can do with this. Please add any more if it comes to you. [8D]

Later,
KayBay [8D]