Norway

[Michael the Pole]

Playing 1939 campaign as the Allies. I want to do a pre-emptive invasion of Norway as the British wanted to do (the Germans beat them to it by less than a day! The British and French forces were literally at sea on the way to Norway when the Germans launched their invasion!)
Am I correct in thinking that we are prohibited from launching such an attack, despite its clear historical precedent?!!

[cpdeyoung]

Good Morning Mike,
 
I pointed out that Mers el Kebir was not possible in the game either.  There are things nations do in wartime with neutrality and beligerency that do not model well in a standard ruleset.  The Cossack and Altmark incident is an example.  It had Hitler in a rage, as did Mers el Kebir.
 
I suspect this could be remedied with a provision for an attack on an nation leaning toward your side.  It is very tricky however and certainly would have a subtantial unrest penalty.  I suspect the nation invaded would best be a neutral, at war, as Jugoslavia is modeled. One thing which needs to be addressed in this issue is the "punt back to the deploy pool" which occurs to forces in country when an ally surrenders.  I know why this choice was made, or think I do, but it is far from realistic.  Hard to know how to handle it, perhaps a question to the owner is appropriate.  If you had made your invasion in the same turn as the Germans you might well have been punted out when Norway fell.
 
I do like the way the current rule makes you think hard about the consequences of a surrender.  If you have British troops around Tripoli, drawing support from French Tunis it can be quite a shock to have Vichy imposed, goodbye supply!
 
Chuck

[gwgardner]

It seems your only option is to exert pressure diplomatically, get Norway to join the Allies, and be ready to push in troops immediately.

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: gwgardner

It seems your only option is to exert pressure diplomatically, get Norway to join the Allies, and be ready to push in troops immediately.

Hi Gary,
Well, as it turns out, all was not for nought! As Balto will tell you when he gets home from work and opens his next turn, I discovered that feinting an invasion near Wilhelmshaven (Kiel) is just the thing to bring out the cowardly Nazi navy who met the 56 ship combined Allied fleet and have gone to join the BEF, asleep with the fishes. And to top it off, I didn't even have to go through with the invasion. So as my transports and amphibs sail off into the glorious sunset in search of more profitable venues we can say
Come, cheer up, my lads, 'tis to glory we steer,
To add something more to this wonderful year;
To honour we call you, as freemen not slaves,
For who are as free as the sons of the waves?
Heart of oak are our ships, jolly tars are our men,
we always are ready; Steady, boys, steady!
We'll fight and we'll conquer again and again.
I wonder if I can get into the Med and do so unto the Ities before Balto conquers France?

[James Ward]

I've never considered Norway. What does either side gain by taking Norway?

[cpdeyoung]

Dear Marty,

If you look at my AAR you will see eleven very nice things, including the mighty Norsk. Well strictly speaking the Norsk does not come for free, and I did build some other naval units too, but still it has a sweet little navy.  There are infantry units too.  And it can have other nice advantages as I hope to show in the future.

For the Axis denial of said assets to the Allies, and VP and PP considerations.

Chuck

Edit typo.

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I've never considered Norway. What does either side gain by taking Norway?

Hi James
If you go back a couple of pages in this board you'll discover quite a prolonged conversation that Gary, Chuck, et.al and your humble corespondent had about this subject. Essentially, without rules alowing airforces to inrterdict naval forces, Norway is totally pointless. As is Malta, Crete etc, etc.
However, Doomtrader has alighted our hearts with hope, and we await his coming forth in the glory of the new patch!

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

Dear Marty,

If you look at my AAR you will see eleven very nice things, including the mighty Norsk. Well strictly speaking the Norsk does not come for free, and I did build some other naval units too, but still it has a sweet little navy.  There are infantry units too.  And it can have other nice advantages as I hope to show in the future.

For the Axis denial of said assets to the Allies, and VP and PP considerations.

Chuck

Chuck WHERE are you getting enough PP from NORWAY to let you build the Norsk? The whole world wonders.

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

Dear Marty,

If you look at my AAR you will see eleven very nice things, including the mighty Norsk. Well strictly speaking the Norsk does not come for free, and I did build some other naval units too, but still it has a sweet little navy.  There are a infantry units too.  And it can have other nice advantages as I hope to show in the future.

For the Axis denial of said assets to the Allies, and VP and PP considerations.

Chuck

Did you get them in with Diplomacy? If the Naval game was more detailed then I could see Norway being important to both sides.

[Michael the Pole]

Besides, wasn't the Norsk the airship that Roald Amundsen took to the North Pole?[&:]

[cpdeyoung]

The whole world wonders

 
Don't send that message to Halsey!
 
In my PBEM the USA formed a League of Neutrals with Norway and Greece and supplied them both with convoys until recently.  Not a ton of PP, but enough to make them much more important.  The Norsk was a Norwegian battleship of 1912, a handsome ship.  The new Norsk is even more handsome!
 
The Axis never attacked Greece, but I hoped to surprise Gary if he had.  Norway is now in the battle, with the Naval component being her pride and joy.  Gary probably knew Greece and Norway were getting convoys but he did not know what I built.
 
Chuck

[cpdeyoung]

Dear Marty,
 
Yes.  The British and, I think, the Americans used their influence to bring Norway in.  They were very close for quite a while, but I held off on bringing them in until recently, as the Americans could not continue to send them convoys once they became beligerent
 
Chuck

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

The whole world wonders

Don't send that message to Halsey!
Chuck

Oh, well done, Brother![&o] And here I was thinking of starting a WWII trivia thread like the World in Flames people have. I should have known better!!![X(]

[gwgardner]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung



In my PBEM the USA formed a League of Neutrals with Norway and Greece and supplied them both with convoys until recently.  Not a ton of PP, but enough to make them much more important.  The Norsk was a Norwegian battleship of 1912, a handsome ship.  The new Norsk is even more handsome!

The Axis never attacked Greece, but I hoped to surprise Gary if he had.  Norway is now in the battle, with the Naval component being her pride and joy.  Gary probably knew Greece and Norway were getting convoys but he did not know what I built.

Chuck

Another 'minor' flaw in the PBEM system. I wasn't even aware that Norway had gone Allied!! ( Or as likely, a flaw in my play)

As for the Axis not attacking Greece, I knew that you would come up with a way to get defense in depth at the neck of Attica, and I'd never get to Athens before the June 22nd kickoff date for Barbarossa.

[cpdeyoung]

Dear Gary,
 
I always check the diplomacy screen to see what you are up to there.  I saw Spain heading to war, and keep checking to make sure nothing new is up in the important neutrals.  If you check you will despair to see that Ireland has joined the Allies too!  It is all up for the Axis!
 
Chuck