Should the Allies ...

[James Ward]

be able to bring neutrals into the war on their side? Perhaps they should only be able to perform counter-diplomacy? The USA and Russia are coming in no matter what and the Axis needs to spend all their points getting the countries that actually joined them into the war they really can't counter any Allied diplomacy efforts. The Allies are just playing with house money for the most part!

[cpdeyoung]

They sure tried, and by the end of the war the whole world was pretty much in.  Turkey made it in by the end, as did Brazil, which sent units to Italy.  What else would you use Allied DP for? So far I have brought two countries in over about a year an a half.  The Axis can certainly try Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and so on.  Heck, they can try Greece.  How about Vichy, how about Spain?  Do you want Gary to be restricted from bringing Spain in because Hitler didn't?
 
We are supposed to be free to try things that did not happen.  Why not allow the Allies to spend their DPs?
 
Chuck

[cpdeyoung]

Oops, I forgot England's oldest ally, Portugal, which I brought in too early!
 
Chuck

[James Ward]

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

What else would you use Allied DP for? So far I have brought two countries in over about a year an a half. 

More as a counter to Axis Diplomacy. Say you are in a 3 player game. Is it gamey for the USA to bring Turkey in just to have a base to attack the Soviets from? Heck they pretty much stayed out of the big one because they had no vested interest in it. Or say Germany respects the Netherlands neutrality, should the UK be able to bring them in and get a free supply base on the continent? If nothing else I think Allied pressure in their favor, that is pressuring those leaning their way, should bring unrest increases. Like you say there isn't much for the Allies to do with DP but bringing in Switzerland seems a bit much! [:)]

[Mike Parker]

I have to agree here somewhat.
 
The Axis are really sort of behind the 8 ball with their diplomacy.  They have to use all of their Diplomatic points and still won't have a shot at Bulgaria Romania Hungary and Finland in time for a Historic timed Barbarossa.
 
These countries should be almost automatic, and the dip points should be for influencing Sweden and Spain and a possible coup in Turkey or to activate Persion.  I would love to see a Wafdist revolt in Egypt
 
The allies should then also be able to use their Dip points to either counter the Axis diplomacy or to make some what-if changes of their own.  An allied Turkey in late 42 early 43 would be nice.  If the Axis don't take Yugoslavia the allies could activate them.
 
As it stands though the Axis can either make a shot at getting most (Forget Finland basically) of their historic allies or go for Spain and Romania.  The allies just do whatever they want.
 
 

[Michael the Pole]

ORIGINAL: Mike Parker

I have to agree here somewhat.

The Axis are really sort of behind the 8 ball with their diplomacy.  They have to use all of their Diplomatic points and still won't have a shot at Bulgaria Romania Hungary and Finland in time for a Historic timed Barbarossa.

These countries should be almost automatic, and the dip points should be for influencing Sweden and Spain and a possible coup in Turkey or to activate Persion.  I would love to see a Wafdist revolt in Egypt

The allies should then also be able to use their Dip points to either counter the Axis diplomacy or to make some what-if changes of their own.  An allied Turkey in late 42 early 43 would be nice.  If the Axis don't take Yugoslavia the allies could activate them.

As it stands though the Axis can either make a shot at getting most (Forget Finland basically) of their historic allies or go for Spain and Romania.  The allies just do whatever they want.

AGREE! This is the kind of thing that would make every game different and interesting. Glenn, Chuck these are the type of decisions that could gain you an early Axis victory. I include, of course delaying suicidal war declarations against the US, etc.
The one thing I have always wanted to try (and one of the reason why i was so VERY disappointed in the game early on -- because of the air/sea problem which made the campaign unreproduceable) is what I call the Southern Option. Reinforce Rommel in early 1941 with just a single additional panzer korps. But ya'll have heard me on that subject before!

[gwgardner]

Just jigger with the diplo points available or for exertion of pressure, instead of diaabling Allied use of diplos.

The Axis can do a lot with diplos. One game against the AI I got Sweden, Turkey, and Iraq to go Axis. Sweden allowed me to take Norway - more diplo points as I recall. Took Egypt, got more diplo points (as I recall), and then persuaded Turkey, etc.

I'm not so sure getting the historical Axis partners is so great - Romania yes, but Bulgaria and Hungary are pretty much useless.