Computer Europe at War

[balto]

http://www.decisiongames.com/wwii/europe/europe.htm

Hi,

If I am reading the internet correctly, this will be out soon. I was wondering if anybody knew: (1) Is that Download demo the new version that is not released yet, or is it the old version? (2) It seems possible this game could be great, but you never know. Does anyone have any thoughts on this one. I am getting antsy waiting on Crown of Glory; Emperor's Edition.

Thanks

[GJK]

I won't harp here on Matrix's forums too much more about it as I have said plenty already - a search should pull up some info - but to quickly answer your questions:

1. Yes, that demo is for the upcoming (soon - materials off to the publisher now) release and allows you to play the "Polish Campaign".

2. I've enjoyed beta-testing it. It accurately represents the boardgame of the same name on the computer with additional options and fixes that the boardgame doesn't have in it. Huge map, lots of units with a very simple UI and what I love most, you can see all the strength/movement points right there on the counters and don't have to mouse over a stack to get the info for it.

[old man of the sea]

it looks great

played the demo, plays good too

E

[Grell]

Thanks for the heads up Balto, I'll look into this game.

Regards,

Grell

[Capitaine]

I downloaded and played the Demo with the Polish campaign.  It played pretty well I thought but I had two sort of negative reactions:
 
(1) The system seems pretty bland and vanilla after the many years when this game was in vogue; and
(2) I didn't like the map very much; seems to be a tile system.  Especially the very angular appearance of the RRs, unlike in the actual SPI game.  I think a straight copy of the original map would've been better, or at least make the RRs rounded.  Some won't mind this point, but it affects my buying decision.
 
The interface and game options were both pretty good though.  There seems to be some potential here but it's not groundbreaking, espec. with no AI.

[Fred98]

Capitane,

When you start the demo, you see an options screen. One option is the map tiles. You can choose the board game map tiles.

However I reckon all the map tiles are poor.

All I know about modding games is how to spell the phrase. Antd yet I used Microsoft Paint and modded the map tiles. Its very easy!
-

[GJK]

I've done a few map mods for the beta. Yes, the unfortunate part is that it is a "tiled" display in that every terrain type shares the same, single image so you can't get add the details that a single map image file will allow you to add. CWiE does use a different set of tiles for each weather zone, depending on the current month however, so there is some variation across the entire map.

[Capitaine]

Joe, I will look at this and see if the option you refer to provides the original map.  Will post afterward!

[Capitaine]

Yeah I just tried the SPI "map tiles" and the RR tiles remain the same angular ones as in the other tiles.  It's just coloring that's different (clear is off white instead of green, e.g.).

[Twotribes]

Now if they would just publish the damn game. It is almost February and they have been saying December January since well December.

[goodwoodrw]

Do I understand correctly, no single player option?

[Aurelian]

No AI.

[davetheroad]

For me no AI is an advantage. The AI in games of this scope cannot hope to compete with a human mind as there are so many possibilites and permutatations. I like the idea of a game with big scope and room for operational movement without all the cluttering detail of some other games. It is bad enough having to move and fight over a hundred units without having to deal with all the specialised units.
 
the editing possibilities are intruiging as the vanilla scenarios can be modded and even new ones created. It always irritated me that there was no way the German Cavalry division could get to the Dnepr in 3 weeks, which it did historically. Just mod it with a larger movement allowance and even give it a force march option? One nice chrome option is you can give individual units names, so I can have infantry regiment Gross Deutschland in Barbarossa.
 
CWIE has come up in several forums recently and when it is published (23 March?) a single contact point needs to be organised for game discussion, finding opponents etc.

[jeggett]

No AI (or bad AI) is no purchase here..

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: davetheroad

For me no AI is an advantage. The AI in games of this scope cannot hope to compete with a human mind as there are so many possibilites and permutatations.

I agree wholeheartedly...AI at this level is pretty useless...I would think about buying but for two things...lack of knowledge of where pbem players are and, most of all, price.It's way too costly. £40 and not knowing if it would be right for me? Too much of a gamble.

The demo was piss poor and in know way allowed a noob to the game to see if it was acceptable. Half a dozen turns of world wide play and a tutorial thrown in would have been a bigger seller. A longer bigger scale demo would've sufficed I expect, allowing people to see the bigger picture of what their money is going for.

Don't forget, and I'm not taking away from developers here, but creating a game, from an existing board game, without an AI is alot easier than producing one with an AI...bad or good. So £40 without the effort put in to an AI is alot of money for less work, as far as I can gather.

Meant to say, throw in postage and it's an expensive purchase at $94 and it's a big no-no.

[Vorsteher]

No, this a top Game for me. No AI, no problem. i play better against human player )
The demo says nothing. Who like SSG games, like WIE.

[madgamer2]

I do not mean any disrespect here but I go back to the days of those big monster games that even if you liked them the space and setup time were enormous. I have the original and am selling with my other board games.
The point here is using the computer as tabletop and moderator. The hardcore board gamers like me are still out here and still have the same problems of space,time,and finding people who can actually get together to play. I for one hope this type of game production goes on because now the games like WIE can be played with the computer.
Those that complain about no AI ard not getting the point. These are not computer games that are played on the computer. They are games played by players using the computer as the means to an end. There is I think a large market for this new type of game. Its for board gamers who now have a way to play there games like WIE. The computer can do much of the book work also. Now if some designer could figure out how to give this treatment to say.....Europa.....naw that's just a dream.
Those of you who did not grow up with board games and are computer gamers (think AI) now have a chance to play the way we used to play. So come on computer gamers give it a try before you start complaining about no AI.

Madgamer

[JudgeDredd]

Well I'm not missing the point. I presume your retorte is to other posters regarding AI.

My point is that is an expensive computer game without the attempt of an AI. Other computer programmers who attempt to put an AI in, which I suspect could well be estimated at least 50% of a developers time, goes for less than $60. So it seems they are charging a premium for a computer representation and hope that boardgamers see that as value.

As a computer game player, I do not. I understand your point, but I still think it's heavily over-priced and, by not having a download option, they've limited their market even further.

I didn't go to business school, and I'm a simple guy...but I would've thought if you were in business and offering a product, limiting your market was not a good idea.

Good luck to them, but until they drop the price or, at the very least, have a download option or a euro distribution store so I don't have to burn money on postage, then I won't buy.

[Twotribes]

They are a small niche company. Run by, as I recall a married couple. Most of their games are board games. They generally try and get people to pledge to buy a coming new product so they know how many to make and then can keep costs down.

[Mrtyphoon]

Not bothered by the lack of an AI or the cost always agree that ventures like this need our support what bothers me is the shipping and long wait. Looks a great game but it needs to be easier to get hold of espesially for us living outside the U.S