Moving the French naval phase to second

[Dancing Bear]

Hi all,
hidden in another post is an idea to move the French naval phase to second in the naval phase, i.e. just after GB. Since GB almost always never goes first, this means, France will do her naval phase immediately after her reinforcement phase. Just like the Spainish diplomacy and reinforcement phases, this would mean a quicker turnaround (about 3.5%).
What I want to know is, would you guys be ok with this?

In other posts, Hornblower, borner and jimmer were in agreement, so with me, this makes 4 so far.

[NeverMan]

It would be interesting to see how this effects game play, since France goes then Spain now.

[eske]

Would steal moving first from Russia.
Fx. if France get Sweeden, Russia navy risks getting blocked immidiatly after DoW.
 
I'm not too keen on this. Changing sequence of navy move has high impact on the game.
 
/eske

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: eske

Would steal moving first from Russia.
Fx. if France get Sweeden, Russia navy risks getting blocked immidiatly after DoW.

I'm not too keen on this. Changing sequence of navy move has high impact on the game.

/eske

I tend to agree with this, I just don't think it's wise.

[iamspamus]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

ORIGINAL: eske

Would steal moving first from Russia.
Fx. if France get Sweeden, Russia navy risks getting blocked immidiatly after DoW.

I'm not too keen on this. Changing sequence of navy move has high impact on the game.

/eske

I tend to agree with this, I just don't think it's wise.

DITTO!

[DCWhitworth]

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

Hi all,
hidden in another post is an idea to move the French naval phase to second in the naval phase, i.e. just after GB. Since GB almost always never goes first, this means, France will do her naval phase immediately after her reinforcement phase. Just like the Spainish diplomacy and reinforcement phases, this would mean a quicker turnaround (about 3.5%).
What I want to know is, would you guys be ok with this?

In other posts, Hornblower, borner and jimmer were in agreement, so with me, this makes 4 so far.

I'd disagree, the saving is illusory. France will rarely play their naval phase anyway being blockaded by GB, so you'd just end up with Russia's phase being next.

In fact with the phase skipping introduced in v1.05 I've been seeing that it's the naval phase where the greatest savings are being made. Russia, Prussia, France and Austria will usually skip and Spain and Turkey may also do so.

One game I'm in only GB and Spain played the last phase.

[Dancing Bear]

Ok, I think I have been persuaded that this might not be a good idea. I had not thought about the Russia-Sweden scenario. Let's leave the naval phase as is, and only ask for the Spainish economic phase to be moved to first (if possible).

One thing I might add about the popularity of naval phase skipping is I think it points to how popular land phase skipping (auto-foraging) would be, if it were possible. I would also imagine that reinforcement phase skipping would be done more often if there was some way of automatically adding reinforcements or adding them during some over time in the game, when strict adherence to the schedule is not necessary.

Nobody seems to want to skip diplomacy for reasons that are not clear, so this will have to be a simultaneous phase.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

Ok, I think I have been persuaded that this might not be a good idea. I had not thought about the Russia-Sweden scenario. Let's leave the naval phase as is, and only ask for the Spainish economic phase to be moved to first (if possible).

One thing I might add about the popularity of naval phase skipping is I think it points to how popular land phase skipping (auto-foraging) would be, if it were possible. I would also imagine that reinforcement phase skipping would be done more often if there was some way of automatically adding reinforcements or adding them during some over time in the game, when strict adherence to the schedule is not necessary.

Nobody seems to want to skip diplomacy for reasons that are not clear, so this will have to be a simultaneous phase.

If ME/Matrix makes the Eco Simul then moving Spain to first becomes a moot point. This would be my preference as even in FtF games we did the Eco Simul.

EVEN if Matrix/ME could just start out with that, making the Eco Simul, it would be great and might be a good judge of how things are to go with a Dip Simul, time wise.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
If ME/Matrix makes the Eco Simul then moving Spain to first becomes a moot point. This would be my preference as even in FtF games we did the Eco Simul.

We did as well. The only non-simultaneous part was who GB was going to trade with, which can easily be shifted to either a beginning-of-econ "special" phase, or simply carry over from the values GB had in place at the end of land.

In fact, diplomacy was done simultaneously as well. However, in terms of the computer game, there were a dozen or so sub-diplo phases: Declarations of war (simultaneous with each other, revealed all at once); call to allies (same parenthetical notation), etc.

This brings up another point that might help some of the other discussions: How about moving the declarations of war phase into it's own phase, and leave the rest of the diplo stuff for a "second" phase. These two phases could each be simultaneous within themselves, but separated from each other.

In this way, many of the objections to making some parts of reinforcement simultaneous with diplo would evaporate. Maybe even all of them would.

[NeverMan]

But you would then be creating 2 phases to replace 2 phases, not sure of the benefit there.

Also, I rarely played with simul Dip since I don't like it because DOWs are declared at once; HOWEVER, since the EiH PC game does this anyways, it doesn't even make sense to keep it separate phases, does it?

[Jimmer]

Three phases out of two, actually (two diplos and one reinforcement). The reinforcement MIGHT be merged with diplo (sort of), but that's dependent upon the person doing skipping.

However, what it WOULD do is allow for a completely simultaneous diplomacy (after the "war phase"). Right now, the "combine diplo and reinforcement" option is merely a way to get around not being able to have simultaneous diplo. This option would remove most of the objections to simultaneous diplo.

So, in the end, we would have two phases each done simultaneously within themselves, plus reinforcement with skipping (and pseudo-merging with diplo, for skippers). Currently, there are 7 phase steps for diplo, so this would remove the equivalent of <5 (there would still be delays, even with simultaneous, so it's not the same as pulling 5 players out would be.)

NOTE: The "war phase" would also be simultaneous, within itself.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: Jimmer

Three phases out of two, actually (two diplos and one reinforcement). The reinforcement MIGHT be merged with diplo (sort of), but that's dependent upon the person doing skipping.

However, what it WOULD do is allow for a completely simultaneous diplomacy (after the "war phase"). Right now, the "combine diplo and reinforcement" option is merely a way to get around not being able to have simultaneous diplo. This option would remove most of the objections to simultaneous diplo.

So, in the end, we would have two phases each done simultaneously within themselves, plus reinforcement with skipping (and pseudo-merging with diplo, for skippers). Currently, there are 7 phase steps for diplo, so this would remove the equivalent of <5 (there would still be delays, even with simultaneous, so it's not the same as pulling 5 players out would be.)

NOTE: The "war phase" would also be simultaneous, within itself.

Ok, I wasn't paying attention to the fact that the "war phase" would also be Simul. That would cut down some time, I believe.

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan
Ok, I wasn't paying attention to the fact that the "war phase" would also be Simul. That would cut down some time, I believe.

I think we're on the verge of something. Really, though, it belongs in the other thread. I'll think about re-writing it over there later today.