Advice sought

[Major Ball]

It is about May playing a PBEM game and the Japanese player has landed at Chandpar, India with 45 units in the biggest invasion I have ever seen. Probably around 4500 assault strength in total. After reducing the forts from 5 to zero I was just able to hold the base with about 1000 assault strength. Have now managed to rush in around 3000 assault strength myself. Then Thunderstorms have set in and the Japs have been stuck on the beaches for about 3 weeks. Last test of strength has seen Jap assault strength down to around 3800. The Jap player has been trying to supply with Submarines. The Japs also lost around 80 ships in the invasion, lots of transports, 2 BB sunk and a couple of torps into some carriers. The Japs closest land base is Rangoon around 9 hexes away and that Jap carriers cannot operate in the Thuderstorms too well:
I have bombarded with planes and performed shore bombarment with BB. Last clear turn Japs did a fighter sweep and lost around 80 zeros and I lost around 150 fighers as well.

What is the best way to defeat these units and prevent resupply activities?

Havnt seen the result of the last turn but just launched a shock attack on them to see what happens. I am hoping because I hold the base my units will gain strength quicker and I am hoping to reduce his supplies.

Last attempt to resupply by sea cost the Japs 3 CL and around 6 DD.

I will try add a screen shot later.

[marky]

1. use long range bombers to search and attack
2. use fighters to strafe supply ships
3. concentrate submarines to scout and attack
4. bomb, bomb, bomb em back to the stone age
5. use BBs and CAs for naval gunfire support but set escorts to not bombard
6. plant mines
7. have ground troops bombard and bring in LOTS of artillery
8. bring in lots of ASW ships
9 set other long range bombers to search for subs and direct aforementioned destroyers to send em to Davy Jones Locker

[RUPD3658]

Looks like you have him where you want him. Yoy could use your own subs to mine the base to make resupply more difficult. You could also move level bombers into a position where they can hit the beachhead but their bases can't be hit by Zeros escorted counter strikes.

Keep bombarding with your LCUs as this will further raise the Jap supply consumtion.

[Major Ball]

How long can those troops hold out?

I have totally surrounded Chandpar, will a 1 to 1 shock attack enough to push the Japs back into the ocean?

[RUPD3658]

Japanese troops will not retreat unless they have a valid retreat path, which it does not sound like they do. Instead they will keep taking losses until the odd get into the hundreds to 1 range when they will be destroyed. For this reason I would not shock attack since this only increases you losses

[alaviner]

I am guessing it is still mid '42.  He will have committed most of his Naval and Air Forces to this effort.  And he is probably still moving more to try and break the stalemate.  I would use this opportunity to hit him with the US Navy at Kwajaien, Wake or S. Pac.  Make sure you are moving plenty of supply to bases near Chandpur to keep your troops well covered.  I agree with Rupd, do not shock attack until you have them on the ropes.  Use bombardments (naval and arty) between deliberate attacks when your disruption and fatigue are below 20.  Take your time the longer he is tied down with this operation he will not be attacking or reinforcing his perimeter.   

[Major Ball]

I gather the adjusted defence strength of the Japs is half indicating that they may already be suffering supply problems??

Results of shock attack:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chandpur

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 121338 troops, 1171 guns, 517 vehicles, Assault Value = 3022

Defending force 205099 troops, 1003 guns, 466 vehicles, Assault Value = 3611

Allied max assault: 6604 - adjusted assault: 2595

Japanese max defense: 2878 - adjusted defense: 1437

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
5633 casualties reported
Guns lost 78

Allied ground losses:
10666 casualties reported
Guns lost 164

[Ambassador]

Even if you kill his troops immediately, do you have the assets to take Burma back ?  I guess no : I doubt you could make an amphibious invasion in the Rangoon area before '43 or '44, and the land route is too long (not enough supplies trickling down IMVHO).  So, what's the hurry ?  So long as the Jap troops are fighting there, they're not elsewhere.  Every Zero lost above Chandpur is a pilot lost as well.  Every damaged ship is out of commission for several weeks/months.  Every supply point lost by Japan is worth more than a supply point used by you.  Every sub on supply mission there isn't threatening your US CVs in the Solomons, the Gilberts or the Marshalls.  Every tanker or cargo that has to make the trip up to Rangoon risks meeting a british sub with working torpedoes.  Every IJA bomber on ASW mission on the approaches of Rangoon is not doing the same mission in the SRA.
So, I find this invasion is an excellent field to start/continue an attrition war : you can easily suffer more losses than him, and still be victorious.  And if you have low-experience LCUs & squadrons, it provides a good place where to train them with bombardments (or even occasional deliberate attack) or ground attacks.
 
Moreover, suppose your opponent has kept a cadre of each of the 45 units.  Once you'll kill the parent fragments, he will have the possibility to build anew every single LCU that was supposedly lost.  And he'll be able to use them elsewhere sooner than you'll have the assets to launch an amphibious assault across the Bay of Bengal.  You'll end up fighting the same units, so better wait as long as possible before you give him a chance to build them back.[:D]

[Major Ball]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

Even if you kill his troops immediately, do you have the assets to take Burma back ?  I guess no : I doubt you could make an amphibious invasion in the Rangoon area before '43 or '44, and the land route is too long (not enough supplies trickling down IMVHO).  So, what's the hurry ?  So long as the Jap troops are fighting there, they're not elsewhere.  Every Zero lost above Chandpur is a pilot lost as well.  Every damaged ship is out of commission for several weeks/months.  Every supply point lost by Japan is worth more than a supply point used by you.  Every sub on supply mission there isn't threatening your US CVs in the Solomons, the Gilberts or the Marshalls.  Every tanker or cargo that has to make the trip up to Rangoon risks meeting a british sub with working torpedoes.  Every IJA bomber on ASW mission on the approaches of Rangoon is not doing the same mission in the SRA.
So, I find this invasion is an excellent field to start/continue an attrition war : you can easily suffer more losses than him, and still be victorious.  And if you have low-experience LCUs & squadrons, it provides a good place where to train them with bombardments (or even occasional deliberate attack) or ground attacks.

Moreover, suppose your opponent has kept a cadre of each of the 45 units.  Once you'll kill the parent fragments, he will have the possibility to build anew every single LCU that was supposedly lost.  And he'll be able to use them elsewhere sooner than you'll have the assets to launch an amphibious assault across the Bay of Bengal.  You'll end up fighting the same units, so better wait as long as possible before you give him a chance to build them back.[:D]

Point taken. Only concern is the quantity of troops the Allies can gather in the India/Burma region should the Japs decide to throw more troops to the wolves. I have noticed since the downing of 80 Jap Zeros over Chandpur Japanese training missions in China have increased significantly.

I suppose with my forts now built back up to level 4 and the Japs stuck on the beaches it makes Chandpur extremely difficult to capture.

[marky]

just pound em to death, starve em, and turn it into a prison camp [:D]

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: Major Ball

Point taken. Only concern is the quantity of troops the Allies can gather in the India/Burma region should the Japs decide to throw more troops to the wolves. I have noticed since the downing of 80 Jap Zeros over Chandpur Japanese training missions in China have increased significantly.

I suppose with my forts now built back up to level 4 and the Japs stuck on the beaches it makes Chandpur extremely difficult to capture.

Your opponent has lost 80 ships, including two BBs, and a couple of CVs were hit. He would not be wise to dump more troops - if he even has any spare left. Could you give a rough list of the LCUs he's thrown at you ? 45 is a lot, he's probably emptied his strategic reserve for that.

And seeing your combat report, you could even pull a few units back to hold another invasion. The Japanese adjusted AV is barely 1400, on a nominal of 3600 : he suffers problems of disruption and/or supply. Supply should be hard for him, since 200000 troops are a huge consumer, and subs alone can't keep it fully supplied. No full supply = no good attack. You currently have an AV of 3000, and lvl4 forts, which doubles the AV, and I doubt you have any supply problem. If he tries an attack, you could have an adjusted AV of 6000, and he won't have a quarter of that. So, you can certainly remove some Indian brigades and divisions.
Speaking of pulling units back, you really should do it. Rotate them : when an LCU gets many disabled squads or some disruption, pull it back to, say, Calcutta, let it rest, and replace it with another previously fully rested LCU. Your opponent does not have that possibility, you have, so use it.[;)]


And if you can catch his training missions in China with a surprise LRCAP...[8D]

[Major Ball]

ORIGINAL: Ambassador

ORIGINAL: Major Ball

Point taken. Only concern is the quantity of troops the Allies can gather in the India/Burma region should the Japs decide to throw more troops to the wolves. I have noticed since the downing of 80 Jap Zeros over Chandpur Japanese training missions in China have increased significantly.

I suppose with my forts now built back up to level 4 and the Japs stuck on the beaches it makes Chandpur extremely difficult to capture.

Your opponent has lost 80 ships, including two BBs, and a couple of CVs were hit. He would not be wise to dump more troops - if he even has any spare left. Could you give a rough list of the LCUs he's thrown at you ? 45 is a lot, he's probably emptied his strategic reserve for that.

And seeing your combat report, you could even pull a few units back to hold another invasion. The Japanese adjusted AV is barely 1400, on a nominal of 3600 : he suffers problems of disruption and/or supply. Supply should be hard for him, since 200000 troops are a huge consumer, and subs alone can't keep it fully supplied. No full supply = no good attack. You currently have an AV of 3000, and lvl4 forts, which doubles the AV, and I doubt you have any supply problem. If he tries an attack, you could have an adjusted AV of 6000, and he won't have a quarter of that. So, you can certainly remove some Indian brigades and divisions.
Speaking of pulling units back, you really should do it. Rotate them : when an LCU gets many disabled squads or some disruption, pull it back to, say, Calcutta, let it rest, and replace it with another previously fully rested LCU. Your opponent does not have that possibility, you have, so use it.[;)]


And if you can catch his training missions in China with a surprise LRCAP...[8D]

What I can see:
6 divisions
2 guards divisions
9 brigades
9 NLF
2 Naval Guard
1AA
3 armour regiments
Various smaller SNLF

[Yamato hugger]

Looks like the bulk of the Japanese "mobile" forces. You can do what you want everywhere else. I would suggest an invasion of Java.

[Major Ball]

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Looks like the bulk of the Japanese "mobile" forces. You can do what you want everywhere else. I would suggest an invasion of Java.

With whose army?

[Ambassador]

This far in the campaign, I don't know what they get as reinforcements, but in December 1941, the IJA has no more than twelve divisions available for its invasions, plus some brigades and many naval guards, NLF's and SNLF's. Chandpur got eight of the twelve divisions - two-thirds. Nine brigades is a lot too, and if he used a bunch of the smaller regiment/batallion-sized units, this surely means he could not/wished not to afford using the other four divisions. Does he have any other big ground operation somewhere else (Java, Philippines, New Guinea...) ? Do you have any Intel on their location ? This could give you vast insight in his capabilities.

When you know what your opponent is capable of doing, you can more adequately decide on your course of action. In addition to the twelve assault divisions, he could maybe have "bought" two with PPs, or three max, but certainly nothing more. And maybe even not that. He probably keeps a few around Rabaul, Wake or Kwajalein, to be ready in case of a US-Australian offensive, unless you've lost most of your US CV's. What's the situation in this front ? Did your opponent stop at the historical high water mark, or did he press forward ? Are any big fleet CV lost, on either side ? If you've lost your US CV's, he does not have to fear an early offensive in the South Pacific, even if a few of his CV's are damaged (which ones in fact ? KB or only CVL's ?), so he might have two or three additional divisions ready to use... if he's willing to take some risks. My bet is "no".

**

Another thing. Just look at your LCU's, their load cost specifically. See how much it is ? Look at the list of sunken ships. What do you think it did at his sealift capacity ? He neither has the ground forces to launch a second massive invasion, nor the ships to transport them, and he might even start running out of escorts. Especially as the locations he might invade are obvious :
- he could make a second invasion in the Calcutta area, at Diamond Harbour maybe. But all the RAF is nearby, so he'll lose even more ships, and you'll have many ground forces to run forward, as the Chandpur situation is ok for now.
- he could land at or around Madras, or Ceylon. But you have several airfields there, and could move the RAF in quickly. He would need many troops to present a meaningful threat, and you still could bring more of yours faster, by the Indian railways. And he would need to resupply his troops, across the Indian Ocean : a far more dangerous place for transports than cruising along the Malayan coast under an air-ASW umbrella.

So, if he invades, he'll have to bring KB to provide air cover : both places are beyond LBA range. This means pitting a CVTF against LBA - always a losing move for the CV's. If not, that's much more naval losses for him, for fewer achievements on ground.

In short, I don't believe he could nor would make a second invasion.

**

A couple of other thoughts.

- Closest land base is Rangoon (just noticed it) ? Do you mean you still hold Mandalay ? and he sent most of his ground forces to India ? This would be dangerous, as you could drive down the road to Rangoon, and take back his rear-area base.
- do you still hold Akyab ? Place a few patrol planes there, to act as sentries, and ASW planes.



EDIT: I missed the last two posts. "With whose army", you ask ? Australians and Americans. Southwest Pacific, South Pacific, even Central or North Pacific units, unless you have a house rule preventing the use of troops outside of their assigned theater HQ. Make a list of your available assets : you'll see it's much longer than the Japanese's list.[;)]

[alaviner]

ORIGINAL: Major Ball

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

Looks like the bulk of the Japanese "mobile" forces. You can do what you want everywhere else. I would suggest an invasion of Java.

With whose army?

Use the Aussies - take Bali or one of the other smaller islands that will put you in good recon range- Even if you don't invade Java this will give him a heart attack.

[Major Ball]

The advice is very helpful. No US carriers have been lost and apart from an early hit and run raid early they have just been sitting back waiting for the KB to show themselves. He did use significant forces to take Port Moresby early in the game. I beleive he split his KB up....I put a torpedo into the Kagi and 2 into the Shoho off Chandpur and he since retreated his Carrier forces from the battle. His lack of air support cost him so many ships. At least 30 AP, another 20 AK, various MSW, about a dozen DD. Nearly every other BB took multple hits with bombs and torpedos.

The biggest problem with any sort of offensive operation is the Japanese Torpedo bombers and lack of long range fighters for the Alleis at this stage. Probably limits offensive operations to the Pacific.

Seems that the general idea is to squeeze the Japs somewhere else.

Akyab is still held despite an attempted Paratroop invasion and is being used for Recon. Although it has become a target for Jap LB's.

[AW1Steve]

I'd say squeeze them EVERYWHERE that you can. A hit and run raid here, a small invasion there, and a massive bomber raid in another place. Don't go for a big battle in one place (that's where you worry and harras him to death and try and delay him). Try for a death by a thousand cuts. Somewhere I once heard a Japanese proverb, "The mightiest giant may be overcome , if enough ants are employed". He can't be everywhere. You can. He grabs India, you grab Guam and Saipan and start raining death on his home islands. Or cut off his supplies in th DEI. Be creative. And instead of thinking "Where can I drive him back?" Instead think "How can I drive him nuts?" War is not just strategic. It's psychological. And most of all , it's about grabbing the initiative. YOU play the tune, Make HIM dance. [:D]

[Major Ball]

Jap Invasion

[John Lansford]

I'm wondering if all those subs and light forces you are spotting heading for Chandapur aren't supply, but evacuation TF's.  He's already lost this assault; no way can he bring enough supply in by sub and light warship to keep so many men able to fight, and against your defending force anything less will be insufficient.  He was probably hoping Chandapur wasn't heavily defended and his massive assault would swamp the defenders, but now there's no way he can supply them without big AK/AP TF's so they're trapped on the beach, a logisticians' nightmare.
 
If it were me I'd be trying to get men OUT of Chandapur, not resupply the ones already there.  He's risking a Stalingrad-sized defeat, with a Guadalcanal-sized loss in shipping thrown in on top of it.  In fact, he's probably already there in both situations.