Operation Hailstone in WitP

[DivePac88]

While not being as glamorous as some of the carrier verses carrier confrontations of the Pacific campaign, I have long considered the strikes against Truk (Operation Hailstone) on 17/18 February 1944 as one of the definitive carrier operations of WW2. At that stage of the war I still consider this operation as bold, and of course very risky. The strategic reason given at the time was that Truk needed to be neutralized to protect the flank of the upcoming Eniwetok operation. But for some reason that has never washed with me, and I think it was more about isolating Rabaul... possibly. Anyhow I was wondering if anyone has tried to emulate this operation, and if so were their results as good as the historic ones?

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

While not being as glamorous as some of the carrier verses carrier confrontations of the Pacific campaign, I have long considered the strikes against Truk (Operation Hailstone) on 17/18 February 1944 as one of the definitive carrier operations of WW2. At that stage of the war I still consider this operation as bold, and of course very risky. The strategic reason given at the time was that Truk needed to be neutralized to protect the flank of the upcoming Eniwetok operation. But for some reason that has never washed with me, and I think it was more about isolating Rabaul... possibly. Anyhow I was wondering if anyone has tried to emulate this operation, and if so were their results as good as the historic ones?

My opponent did something similar to my Kwajalein base recently--April 1943 in my game.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

While not being as glamorous as some of the carrier verses carrier confrontations of the Pacific campaign, I have long considered the strikes against Truk (Operation Hailstone) on 17/18 February 1944 as one of the definitive carrier operations of WW2. At that stage of the war I still consider this operation as bold, and of course very risky. The strategic reason given at the time was that Truk needed to be neutralized to protect the flank of the upcoming Eniwetok operation. But for some reason that has never washed with me, and I think it was more about isolating Rabaul... possibly. Anyhow I was wondering if anyone has tried to emulate this operation, and if so were their results as good as the historic ones?

I just executed this with perfect results, basically you need to recon Truk because late 42 it starts to get packed with fighters, bombers. I put all my carriers to take care of Truk before splitting into 2 Battlegroups of 2 Cv's, 4 Bombardment groups, 2 Repenishment groups, and Invasion TF was at Baker Island ready for Marshall Islands.

[Odin]

Thats exactly i want to do in my current game. Truk is full of japanese ships, 90+ or so and i want to sink some of them...but i´m not shure how it works.

I never used Carrier TF´s for raids like this before.

If someone has tipps and ideas how to do, please tell me[:)]

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Odin

Thats exactly i want to do in my current game. Truk is full of japanese ships, 90+ or so and i want to sink some of them...but i´m not shure how it works.

Drive up to within range.

Launch.

Depart.

You really don't want to stay within Zero and Betty range any longer than you have to. You don't want to hang out in the same hex for too long, either. In my current game, my opponent did that for just a little too long, so today I moved the KB to five hexes distant, and told my flyboys "Go get 'em." Two carriers, a fast battleship, and a heavy cruiser...

[Odin]

That´s it....a few turns ago AI has launched a 97-Betty strike out of Truk.
 
B-24 strikes with HUGE P-38 Escort are better for such a job.
 
Unfortunately, Truk isn´t in range.
 
I think its better to prepare my invasion of Kwajalein and let the ships in truk.

[DivePac88]

See that’s the thing about the reason for the Hailstone operation, there was no reason… full stop. Betty/Frances-Zero combo couldn’t range strikes on the Eniwetok area from Truk, and the type of naval units at Truk were no threat to the landings (there recon had also told them this). Perhaps the Japanese staging in of aircraft reinforcement would have been the only problem, but that could have been done from a number of other Islands. The risks involved in this operation where very high, and the likelihood of damage to major assets also high because of the large number of Japanese anti-shipping aircraft at Truk. These same units were also needed to support the upcoming Eniwetok, so I have never been able to understand the full reasoning behind the raid. But having said that it is still my favorite carrier operation of the war. [;)]

[Misconduct]

Basically earlier I mentioned the 2 CV TF, 4 Bombardment, 2 ASW and 2 Repenishment groups because I sent all them to truk to neutralize it, i.e shut down the airfield then split my TF, one going back to shortland and the other off to Marshall islands to resume my offense, perhaps I got lucky because only ship that got damaged was 1 Bombardment taskforce (few cruisers got wacked by coastal guns) and the Long Island took 2 Torp hits from Betties.

Other then that I sank 13 Ships, including Honsho, airfield I wacked 54 Betties/and 26 Zeros on the ground, over all I stayed in range for 3 turns before bugging out.

I would seriously recon to see how many betties are at Truk first hand, and what combat ships, worst case scenario the KB will be there, and you are
royal screwed.

[Q-Ball]

It's a good question, port attacks in general are a pretty high risk/reward proposition.

For maximum effect, you need surprise. This can be tough to do against the Japanese. To get surprise, pick a point 4 hexes out from Truk, and position yourself to get there full speed. That is probably 16 hexes out from Truk, IF your DD's don't decide to top off. You can minimize that by making sure they are full ahead of time, and also set the TF's homebase to a place as close as possible.

So, if the Japanese can see you 16 hexes out, surprise might be off, certainly if they smell a port raid they can move all valuable ships out of harms way.

I think using Bombardment TF's makes it harder to surprise, because you either have to get closer to start your run, or use cruisers, which should not be used against 8in-CD guns (which Truk has).

Also keep in mind in Port Attacks in major ports: Ships are easy to hit, hard to sink.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


I think using Bombardment TF's makes it harder to surprise, because you either have to get closer to start your run, or use cruisers, which should not be used against 8in-CD guns (which Truk has).

which mod gives Truk 8 inch guns?? [&:]

[John Lansford]

In my 1941 Campaign I just had an IJN force of CA's and DD's bombard Bataan.  I had run a pair of AK's in there to drop off some supplies (AI has already taken Davao so I know the jig is up real soon) and the next turn this TF shows up and blows them out of the water. 
 
OK, they got me, I'm thinking.  Then they bombard!
 
The damage report after that showed all six CA's with 15+ hits and the DD's with 10+ hits as well.  I would have thought that the AI knew better than to bombard a base defended by 14" and 12" guns...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

In my 1941 Campaign I just had an IJN force of CA's and DD's bombard Bataan.  I had run a pair of AK's in there to drop off some supplies (AI has already taken Davao so I know the jig is up real soon) and the next turn this TF shows up and blows them out of the water. 

OK, they got me, I'm thinking.  Then they bombard!

The damage report after that showed all six CA's with 15+ hits and the DD's with 10+ hits as well.  I would have thought that the AI knew better than to bombard a base defended by 14" and 12" guns...

the AI "knows" nothing...