Jager Infantry

[Anthropoid]

The rulebook says Jager cost zero upkeep. Does this mean they do not count toward your Mobilization Limit, or just that you do not spend money on them each turn?

I'm guessing that in the long-run using Jager in place of Militia could allow for a much cheaper military and perhaps even allow for an ultimately bigger mobile offensive force?

[morganbj]

They count against the mob limit.  I've never verified that they cost no upkeep, but if the manual says so, then it must be true.
 
On second thought, you'd better check that and report back.

[Anthropoid]

The manual I have definitely says they have upkeep cost = 0.

So what are they useful for?

[ShaiHulud]

Jagers are far too useful to be relegated to garrison! They are particularly deadly to artillery and the best counter to light infantry. They can throw out skirmishers even if you don't yet have the upgrades. Also, there's a limit to the number one can have and they are costly (in textiles) to produce, so, I'd consider them wasted as mere garrisons.

[Anthropoid]

Interesting. I wonder why the manual doesn't mention that stuff?

[Hard Sarge]

we didn't want you to know all of our little tricks ??????

ducks and hides before Gil sees him

[Anthropoid]

Yeah, you and them tricky devs, always tryin' ta trick us . . .

[Hard Sarge]

why do you think we are always happy, and never give out a stright answer, we not in this for the money you know

[Anthropoid]

Hey here's a question for ya Sarge: "waste."
 
What exactly is being "wasted" with higher waste? Money, food, horses? Everything? I'm guessing more-or-less everything is subject to "waste," and thus, all else being equal, a province will not acheive maximum productivity for any of its activities until it has 5 courts?
 
Courts. The manual says "level 5 courts no waste." Does that mean that a province with 1 court has 20% less "waste" than one with zero, and that one with 2 courts has 40% less? or is it a silly binary setup (God I hope not, this game is otherwise so well done, that would just be an utter farce . . .)
 
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess a couple other things: provinces that are conquested, or more likely to harbor revolts, or perhaps farther from the capital will suffer higher starting waste than others?
 
Is building up all provinces with additional courts a good strategy to improve productivity and efficiency?

[Hard Sarge]

Basicly, Yes

[Joram]

Jager benefits are usually mentioned alongside light infantry.    Jagers as with light infantry are actually pretty powerful units IMO.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Basicly, Yes

"Yes" all, or "yes" nothing?

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Hey here's a question for ya Sarge: "waste."

What exactly is being "wasted" with higher waste? Money, food, horses? Everything? from what I know, anything and everything, but remember, I was the combat guy, BJ and his ECC report, would be a better places for answers I'm guessing more-or-less everything is subject to "waste," and thus, all else being equal, a province will not acheive maximum productivity for any of its activities until it has 5 courts? that one is a little more tricky, the real rule is, a province with 5 courts does not count towards your total of provinces, when waste is determined, so, to be honest, England or Sweden (at least at start) can get by with little or no courts, as they are not close to the limit of when Waste begins to hit, remember, anything over 30 Provinces starts making waste (with Protectorates and Provinces with 5 or more courts not counting for this total)

Courts. The manual says "level 5 courts no waste." Does that mean that a province with 1 court has 20% less "waste" than one with zero, and that one with 2 courts has 40% less? or is it a silly binary setup (God I hope not, this game is otherwise so well done, that would just be an utter farce . . .)I could tell you how I see it, but I am not sure I am "right", so will leave it to the experts, I do know, if you have 50 Provinces, and 5 of them have 5 courts, you are going to be in for a big hurt, wastewise, those 5 may be wastefree, but the other 15 are going to suck all of that up
, I really don't know if 2 is better then 1, or 3 is better then 2, other then, at 3, you are closer to getting to 5, then you are if you are at 2

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess a couple other things: provinces that are conquested, or more likely to harbor revolts, or perhaps farther from the capital will suffer higher starting waste than others?, again, I am the combat guy, so yes, easier to get revolts, and rebels, and a need to be sure you can put the down, but on the Ecc side ????

Is building up all provinces with additional courts a good strategy to improve productivity and efficiency?
would say it depends on who you are, and what your goals are, in the Path of Nappy, Courts are more importent then Fleets/Ships, IIRC, you need something like 105 provinces to win that, besides what you are going to take along the way of getting the 105 you need, you may get by with say 10% waste, 15% will break you, higher then that, your history, the biggest hit with waste is food, you are going to have to put more and more labor into your farms, just to keep even, if your food breaks, you are going to stave, and then all of your labor is going to food, and any other production is gone, if you are going to grow, you have to have courts


and as is normal, I am sure you are more confused now, then you were before you asked, it is just a skill I have

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Basicly, Yes

"Yes" all, or "yes" nothing?

Basicly

[Hard Sarge]

sorry, posted that one, to give me time to get into detail

[Anthropoid]

Guess I should check out BJs econ thread/manual [;)]

[Hard Sarge]

hmmm, I always thought it was Ecc, dang

heck it only took me 10 years to stop spelling escourt, excourt

[morganbj]

Waste works as if it's an "off the top" calculation as a percent of production.  Check the manual, but I believe it's for all tradable goods and money only, not labor.  So, if your nation produces 100 food and your waste level is 10%, only 90 food will hit the national total.  I've done a detailed analysis of this province by province for all countries (1805 scenario) and found that there are a lot of anomolies at that level, but at the national level, it works out just about perfectly.  That means that the calculations are complicated, as some provinces are "exempted" from waste, but the results are pretty much what I describe.

[Anthropoid]

Having re-read your Econ Guide, I'm now fairly confident about the one question I had, namely: is there any benefit to reduced waste from a province with 1 to 4 courts in it. I think the answer to that is a resounding: NO.

Suppose you have 31 provinces, all with zero courts. You will have 1 province * 2% waste = 2% waste total.

There would be the same amount of waste if you had one, two, three, or four courts in all 31 of those provinces. But in a situation with 30 provinces with zero courts and the 31st province with five courts, you would enjoy zero waste.

This is somewhat bizarre, that courts do not have a cumulative additive effect in the same way that nearly every other infrastructural development has. But I suppose the Devs had a conscious intent in designing it this way: it forces you to concentrate Aristoratic, Judicial, and Executive or Legislative development in a few key places (Administrative Centers or Regional Capitals or some such), which then transform those places into a kind of socio-political geographic strategic resource. Ascertain with spies where an enemy has concentrated his Administrative infrastructure, take those out, and cripple his economy.

ADDIT: I'm really now beginning to realize just what an absolutely BRILLIANT economic simulation engine this game has. All the major factors are represented, _and_ in contrast to such engines in other games, the tradeoffs inherent in coordinating many different provinces into a cohesive national whole is wonderfully represented. Naturally one can take a set of the pants approach and do just fine. But one must analyze very deeply and plan very intricately to get the most out an economy, and particular some of the less advantaged nations, although they all seem to have strengths and weaknesses.

[Mus]

Actually the number of courts in a province also determines whether or not that specific province is exempt from the waste effects as well. So if you have a really high level of courts in a few provinces they could still be producing without waste while the rest of your country suffers waste because you dont have enough with five levels of courts.

There are also non waste related effects of courts. So thats what the lower levels are for. They reduce the odds of insurrection, which may not matter much unless you have morale issues.