WITP vs Carriers AT War

[cpcunningham]

Hi, I'm interested in a war game covering the Pacific Theater of WWII. Looked at most of the info about both games. Familiar with SSG's Decisive series but wondering if Carriers is too limited in scope/variety (ie only carrier based strategy). Would be interested in the experiences of any here that have played both? Favourite? Why? Pros & cons, etc...
Thx
CC

[FeurerKrieg]

WITP takes a few years to play. CAW a few days?

[V22 Osprey]

Basicly,

War in the Pacific:Grognard willing to dedicate years to a game.The complexity is unimaginable and is the most complex wargame I've ever seen.[X(]

Carriers at War:It mostly about ship warfare, dont think it covers land engagements.I would get advanced tactics if you want land + sea battles with alot less complexity.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: cpcunningham

Hi, I'm interested in a war game covering the Pacific Theater of WWII. Looked at most of the info about both games. Familiar with SSG's Decisive series but wondering if Carriers is too limited in scope/variety (ie only carrier based strategy). Would be interested in the experiences of any here that have played both? Favourite? Why? Pros & cons, etc...
Thx
CC

Don’t let them scare you off WITP, sure you can as the others point out spend over a year +/- playing out the PTO as I and many do , but I also have spend just a few days playing out scenarios such as Coral Sea.

Hands down my all time fav in the world of PC wargaming , I have by far enjoyed and received more mileage out of WITP then any other title.

Best advice is go down to the WITP forum and start researching what you will be getting into , which BTW the forum/community and it’s PTO knowledge is second to none , its simply staggering .

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Sarge
Don’t let them scare you off WITP,

What Sarge said. Also, I do not find WitP to be that complex, just large and often tedious. The logistical details overwhelm some, but it is really just a matter of being patient.

After the first turn or two, you can rattle off your orders in just a few minutes - of course, for your first few dozen games, you'll get your butt handed to you on a plate - with no ketchup - but that's how you learn.

A great game (but I would wait for Admiral's Edition, a thorough update, before buying - see the AE threads for more).

[bigred]

Another option is Uncommon valor, the mother game of WitP.  On a smaller scale and one campaign takes about a year to play.  The smaller scale allows for time to study of game tactics and programing issues that effect units and play.  Most of the effects of UV are also found in WitP.  WitP has alot of extra's.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: bigred

Another option is Uncommon valor, the mother game of WitP.  On a smaller scale and one campaign takes about a year to play.  The smaller scale allows for time to study of game tactics and programing issues that effect units and play.  Most of the effects of UV are also found in WitP.  WitP has alot of extra's.

Yes, UV was a fine game in its own right, but WitP moved far beyond it, particularly in areas where UV was deficient (assigning a maximum range for air missions being one of the most vital advancements). As UV is a seven-year-old design, I no longer recommend it for purchase (and WitP contains several scenarios that approximate what UV offers; besides, there is a new game in the offing called "Carrier Force" that promises to do for UV what AE will do for WitP - gawd, how I hate acronyms...).

[Titanwarrior89]

Uncommon Valor and Witp both are the best games on the theater.

ORIGINAL: bigred

Another option is Uncommon valor, the mother game of WitP.  On a smaller scale and one campaign takes about a year to play.  The smaller scale allows for time to study of game tactics and programing issues that effect units and play.  Most of the effects of UV are also found in WitP.  WitP has alot of extra's.

[dogancan]

Take into account that UV is much cheaper than WItP.

I suggest you to go for UV and see if you like the concept. If you do, then you can wait for the AE (admiral's edition) of WITP, while playing UV and counting bullets and beans to be sent to some small post in the southern pacific. That is what I do...

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: dogancan

Take into account that UV is much cheaper than WItP.

I suggest you to go for UV and see if you like the concept. If you do, then you can wait for the AE (admiral's edition) of WITP, while playing UV and counting bullets and beans to be sent to some small post in the southern pacific. That is what I do...

Admiral's edition is not a stand alone game , you will need WITP also…[;)]

[Lützow]

WitP has also smaller scenarios, which can be finished on one or two days.

[SuluSea]

UV has 30 mile hex's and WITP are 60 miles. I do like WITP better than UV because of its an improved version of the game despite missing the 30 mile hex's. AE will be 40 mile hex's which should be a big improvement as I see it.

I have and play all three, although take it with a grain of salt here's what I think.

CAW- fun game play and lots of action in a short amount of time but the lack of scenarios provided will lead to less replay value, I do like the clouds/weather fronts provided however. Some user created scenarios but not many that I've seen.

UV -fun game with lots of replay value for fans of the south pacific, mods/material provided from the fans of this game are good. The game does suffer from some gameplay issues that some take advantage of in PBEM which spoils that avenue for me. I like playing against the AI and the game comes with plenty of quality scenarios, especially if you impose your own house rules.

WITP- I haven't been playing this but 6 months but the game has taken me by storm. Plenty of user created material / mods for this game. Great game but by July '42 the AI on the Japanese side is bad and has lost its way. Case in point the KB parking off the coast of Port Moresby in Sept. '42 and letting my LBA rake it, despite the IJA having overwhelming force in China not making any moves to gain more resources.... Recently I started playing as the Japanese and found that its almost a different game, very fun. The AI team has made big strides for AE as far as I can read.


I don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices but if it were my finances I'd purchase UV first.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: Sarge
Don’t let them scare you off WITP,

What Sarge said. Also, I do not find WitP to be that complex, just large and often tedious. The logistical details overwhelm some, but it is really just a matter of being patient.

After the first turn or two, you can rattle off your orders in just a few minutes - of course, for your first few dozen games, you'll get your butt handed to you on a plate - with no ketchup - but that's how you learn.

A great game (but I would wait for Admiral's Edition, a thorough update, before buying - see the AE threads for more).

I think this is the best way to describe WitP. It is not a complex game just a very large game.

[sapper_astro]

ORIGINAL: cpcunningham

Hi, I'm interested in a war game covering the Pacific Theater of WWII. Looked at most of the info about both games. Familiar with SSG's Decisive series but wondering if Carriers is too limited in scope/variety (ie only carrier based strategy). Would be interested in the experiences of any here that have played both? Favourite? Why? Pros & cons, etc...
Thx
CC

What other wargames do you own and enjoy? And just as important, what other wargames do you/have you owned and disliked? And what reasons for the like/dislike. This will allow some of us to pinpoint whether you would prefer WItP or CaW.

[dogancan]

ORIGINAL: Sarge

ORIGINAL: dogancan

Take into account that UV is much cheaper than WItP.

I suggest you to go for UV and see if you like the concept. If you do, then you can wait for the AE (admiral's edition) of WITP, while playing UV and counting bullets and beans to be sent to some small post in the southern pacific. That is what I do...

Admiral's edition is not a stand alone game , you will need WITP also…[;)]

oops, my mistake. [:)] but still, it may be a reasonble choice to begin with the cheaper choice and see if it fits to your taste...

[cpcunningham]

Thanks for all the responses. It's one of the selling points for the games offered By Matrix: the willingness of their forum users to share their knowledge and experience. I'm someone who has only recently come back to wargaming, having last played the board game versions, and enjoying the new lease of playability on computer (I'm kicking myself for all the boardgames I sold at garage sales). One I enjoyed playing was "Midway" and so my attraction to Carriers at War.
I'm leaning towards WITP. As I mentioned, I like the engine and the tactical mechanics behind SSG's Decisive Battles games. And I suspect the same kind of interesting playability in their Carrier At War engine. But the scope (land/sea/air/economics) of WITP is attracting me, as well the re-playability WITP, and that it is about to receive an expansion/update with the AE. I'll let you know what happens. Thx.[:)]

[Llyranor]

Can't attest for WITP, since the game intimidates me.

But I was somewhat disappointed in Carriers at War. It was a tad too 'beer and pretzels' for me.

[Ike99]

besides, there is a new game in the offing called "Carrier Force" that promises to do for UV what AE will do for WitP

[8|]

Don´t hold your breath for this.

Can't attest for WITP, since the game intimidates me.

But I was somewhat disappointed in Carriers at War. It was a tad too 'beer and pretzels' for me.

If WITP is too large and Carriers at War too simple, I think UV is what you want.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Ike99

besides, there is a new game in the offing called "Carrier Force" that promises to do for UV what AE will do for WitP

[8|]

Don´t hold your breath for this.

...and you are speaking on behalf of Matrix?

[Ike99]

...and you are speaking on behalf of Matrix?

No.