Why not WEGO?

[Oleg Mastruko]

Hi, great news about the game... of course, here come the questions....

What is the reason for implementing Igo Ugo system instead of Wego, that both WITP, and WIR, as games most closely comparable to WITE, use? For all I know players loved Wego system in those games, so what are the reasons for going back (kinda) to Igo Ugo?

Will Igo Ugo create problems with PBEM, with players baing able to reload and replay the turn as many times as they want? In fact, how is PBEM going to be implemented anyway, info on this would be most welcome for us PBEM fanatics [8D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

Glad to see you again Oleg! [:)]


Leo "Apollo11"

[rjh1971]

My guess is that pbem will be implemented the same way it was done with AWD and WBTS with a load counter that tells you if your opponent has made a reload.
But I always trust my opponents and really don't worry about reloading.

Joel can give more details, since it has not been done yet.

[Hard Sarge]

with out going into too many details, the PBEM side should be fine, there is not really that much to gain, from replaying the turn over and over again,the damage has already been done on your enemy's turn, then on your turn as you hand it back over

[Hagleboz]

This title has been the most eagerly anticipated game for me for several years but I agree that no Wego is my only real disappointment.  Otherwise everything looks great so far.

[PyleDriver]

Trust me, the way the game is set up it feels WeGo. I'm testing solo games right now, and you can place units into reserve that react to an attack, of course the leader atrabuites do play into the response....

[sol_invictus]

I almost always prefer WEGO in all wargames but at this scale and with the defender having HQ assigned units fed into defending forces, things should work out fine. I assume that air and artillery will also automaticly be engaged to enhance the defense.

[Helpless]

I assume that air and artillery will also automaticly be engaged to enhance the defense.

yes

[Capt Cliff]

IGOUGO is ok if some sort of initative is linked to it. But WEGO the best.

[Capitaine]

WEGO is very, very clumsy in large-scale wargames IMO, and especially with as many units as are in WITE plotting moves and having simultaneous execution of turns would be a tedious and confusing chore.  I'm very grateful the decision was made to use IGO UGO as the gameplay will be much more fluid and rewarding.  I'm glad GG is resistant to gaming fads and recognizes which systems are the best fit for a given project.

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine
...I'm very grateful the decision was made to use IGO UGO as the gameplay will be much more fluid and rewarding...

We don't always agree Mark but I'm with you on this one. IGO UGO works fine for me too. I want to watch my panzers blast holes through the soviet lines and roll over the untermensch while they must watch, helpless to stop me. Or conversely to feel the anguish of the krauts as they break through my line only to see another stronger line ready to bleed them dry before we march what is left of them off to the gulags...

Hmm, maybe I'm already taking this game a bit too seriously. Nah!

[JamesM]

This may have been mentioned before but what does WEGO mean?

[paullus99]

Both players submit orders to their units & the action phase takes place simultaneously.

[Sabre21]

Wego won't work with this game since each unit has a number of movement points (mp's) that are used up to not only move, but to conduct attacks. So a given unit can attack from the outset if adjacent to an enemy, move and attack again..and keep doing this until it runs out of mp's. Different attacks use differing amounts of mp's and it also depends on the terrain, weather, and the type of unit conducting the attack.

Part of the strategy in this game is to use infantry units to conduct a normal attack onto a defensive line making a hole and then moving fresh units in to maybe widen the hole clearing any overlapping zones of control, and then moving your mobile forces thru the gap to conduct a breakthru exploiting the rear area or enveloping enemy forces by linking up with other breakthru units cutting the supply of the trapped enemy forces.

All units don't all have to move at once..they can move a few mp's then attack..other units can then move and attack and then go back to the original units and move more..providing you haven't used up all your mp's. The dynamics of the strategy and tactics that can be used in the way the game is designed is superior to any other computer war game of this type I have played over the last 30 years and in my opinion is not conducive to a Wego system.

[rjh1971]

Absolutely right [8D]

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: jamesm

This may have been mentioned before but what does WEGO mean?

WEGO? Means both side plot there moves then the turn is executed simultaniously, more real.

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

WEGO is very, very clumsy in large-scale wargames IMO, and especially with as many units as are in WITE plotting moves and having simultaneous execution of turns would be a tedious and confusing chore.  I'm very grateful the decision was made to use IGO UGO as the gameplay will be much more fluid and rewarding.  I'm glad GG is resistant to gaming fads and recognizes which systems are the best fit for a given project.

Wasn't the Ole War in Russa a WEGO system, as was the Atomic Game V4Victory series. Clumsy? Not! Real? Yes, 110%!! The IgoUgo system goes back to paper chits on a map, the only way paper chits could be used, AKA like chess. Things happen in RL in RT, real time. As for tedious ... come now we play wargames to micro manage but to plot your turn and then to have the enemy pop up in your rear is what wargaming is all about!! Don't run down WEGO cause you can't grasp the concept.

[rjh1971]

It can be more realistic, but it might be slower when playing by email if there are different phases in one same turn and you have to wait for your opponents answer to continue to the next phase, this is what happened in Guns of August, pbem was desperately slow. Igougo games are better for pbem, imho.
How is it with WitP when pbem?

[Capt Cliff]

ORIGINAL: rjh1971

It can be more realistic, but it might be slower when playing by email if there are different phases in one same turn and you have to wait for your opponents answer to continue to the next phase, this is what happened in Guns of August, pbem was desperately slow. Igoyougo are better for pbem.
How is it with WitP when pbem?

Every play Combat Mission? That is a WEGO tactical system ... takes three exchanges to complete a turn. I have run regement size battle on it and have had no trouble. But if WitE is an IGOUGO then so be it. Waste of air to talk more about it

[Capitaine]

Cliff, I haven't played WiR so I can't say how smooth an operation that was.  I did have in mind the V4V games, though, and those were notoriously difficult to plot and very confusing to follow when resolving combat.  It's telling that most good operational games that followed used IGO UGO (SSG's TAO, TOAW, and HPS's PzC to name a few) and played much more coherently.  WitE will be a much larger scale game than the V4V games, and would be that much more obtuse.  Plotting arrows just don't cut it.
 
Your reference to Combat Mission is misplaced.  It's a tactical game with much fewer units and fewer map plotting constraints as there are no hexes or stacking to worry about.  In fact, CM2 is intended to run in real time, that's how much different it is from an operational map game.  WEGO simply is not a universally desirable system, and can be very detrimental in some types of games.  Given that WitP is WEGO, I'm sure GG knows the pros and cons of both styles and picked the system most suitable for this simulation.