IJN Shinano

[m10bob]

General characteristics

Displacement: 71,890 tons full load
68,059 tons standard
Length: 266.1 m (872.9 ft)
Beam: 36.9 m (121 ft) waterline
40 m (131.3 ft) flight deck
Draft: 10.8 m (35.4 ft)
Propulsion: 12 Kanpon oil-fired boilers,
geared steam turbines,
4 screws,
153,000 hp (114 MW)
Speed: 27 knots (51 km/h)
Range: 10,000 nm. at 27 knots
(18,400 km at 50 km/h)
Complement: 2,515

Armament:

Sixteen 127 mm (5' inch) / 40-caliber guns,
twelve 120 mm (4.7 inch) / 45-caliber guns,
145 - 25 mm/60-caliber anti-aircraft guns,
twelve 28-barreled 127 mm (5 inch) AA rocket launchers
Armor: 127 mm (5 inch) side belt,
100 mm (4 inch) deck,
79 mm (3.1 inch) flight deck
Aircraft carried: 47 (capable of storing 120)

[m10bob]

Pic 2

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: m10bob


Aircraft carried: 47 (capable of storing 120)

Why is there a so big difference between these 2 numbers? 47 120 [X(]

In stock vanilla, the CV has a 48 ac capacity.
In CHS 155, it is 120.

As the durability of this ship is 180, there is absolutely no interest to build her in vanilla but in CHS, it is better.

[Historiker]

It was only able to launch 48 offensivly. But there was room for so many planes that she should have acted as some sort of VR-group carrier.

[Feinder]

It was a conversion of a Yamato class BB hull (hense the very large durability).
 
It was intended as a "fly off" platform, so that non (or minimally) trained pilots could fly off the Shinano, and then land at a land base.

I don't know that it had much in recovery gear (somebody else could probably answer that).

As to why CHS is higher than stock.  I dunno enough about Shinano to make that call.  In CHS the capacity of many CVs have been adjusted a little higher (like most of the RN CVs have a capacity of 45 instead of 35(?) in stock.
 
-F-

[Mynok]

Those Shinano points are always better off spent accelerating real carriers. Halt that sucker on turn one. Just do it.

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Those Shinano points are always better off spent accelerating real carriers. Halt that sucker on turn one. Just do it.

In vanilla, sure but in CHS, not evident.
120 planes, this is 2 late japanese CV.
Like 2 CV with a dur of 90 and an ac capacity of 60. Not bad.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Those Shinano points are always better off spent accelerating real carriers. Halt that sucker on turn one. Just do it.

In vanilla, sure but in CHS, not evident.
120 planes, this is 2 late japanese CV.
Like 2 CV with a dur of 90 and an ac capacity of 60. Not bad.

It's still a colossal waste of resources that would be better spent on escorts for the convoys. I'm with Mynock on this one, turn that sucker off turn 1 and accelerate 3 of the Unryu class in its place.

[Historiker]

Ito Masamori writes in his "The end of the Imperial Japanese Navy" that the Shinano had a flight deck armoured with 30cm (sic!) steel over a layer of cement.

Why have I never seen the Shinano with that deck armour? [;)]

[DuckofTindalos]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: rominet

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Those Shinano points are always better off spent accelerating real carriers. Halt that sucker on turn one. Just do it.

In vanilla, sure but in CHS, not evident.
120 planes, this is 2 late japanese CV.
Like 2 CV with a dur of 90 and an ac capacity of 60. Not bad.

It's still a colossal waste of resources that would be better spent on escorts for the convoys. I'm with Mynock on this one, turn that sucker off turn 1 and accelerate 3 of the Unryu class in its place.

Not that they're any better, but at least there's 3 targets, rather than 1.

[Dili]

Ito Masamori writes in his "The end of the Imperial Japanese Navy" that the Shinano had a flight deck armoured with 30cm (sic!) steel over a layer of cement.

Why have I never seen the Shinano with that deck armour?

Because he probably drunk too much sake to say that [:D]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: rominet




In vanilla, sure but in CHS, not evident.
120 planes, this is 2 late japanese CV.
Like 2 CV with a dur of 90 and an ac capacity of 60. Not bad.

It's still a colossal waste of resources that would be better spent on escorts for the convoys. I'm with Mynock on this one, turn that sucker off turn 1 and accelerate 3 of the Unryu class in its place.

Not that they're any better, but at least there's 3 targets, rather than 1.

Precisely, it increases your chances of one surviving a battle 3 fold, to about a 3 in 100 chance. [:D]

[rominet]

OK
so 48 planes is not enough, i understand
120 planes is not enough too, i understand but less
so how many planes do you want on this CV, guys, if you want to build it?? [:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Shinano is not properly speaking a CV.

[rominet]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Shinano is not properly speaking a CV.

That's sure and as Schwartzeneger said in the film "True lies":
"it's an Expresso coffee-pot" [:'(]

[Mynok]

I play only CHS. I never build Shinano. Not lost yet. Nuff said.

[Yamato hugger]

Oh, I think any wise Jap player will look at the points it costs and find some other worth while use for them. Personally, I hurry the Musashi so she comes on line same time as the Yamato. The problem with the Unryus is even hurried, they will come in too late to help. I'd rather have something today when I need it than tomorrow when I might not.

[Hornblower]

Historically complete waste..    Could you imagine the reception at the USN BoS if some officer suggested building a 70,000 ton carrier with 48 planes? 
not to steal the thread but the USS Midway (biggest USN "ww2" carrier ) was 46,000 tons and carried 100-120 planes.  For the tonnage would you prefer one Shinano or the USS Midway OR the USS Coral Sea?  Midways had 3.5" armored flight deck and 8" belt.  .. shinano had 8-5" belt and 3" flight deck.    enough said i would think.. 

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: rominet

OK
so 48 planes is not enough, i understand
120 planes is not enough too, i understand but less
so how many planes do you want on this CV, guys, if you want to build it?? [:D]

It has nothing to do with the number of planes. It's the number of shipyard points it takes to build it. There are ships I need much more desperately than a BB with a flight deck (kinda like those stupid Ise/Hyuga conversions). And as Terminus pointed out, more carriers simply = better.

If I could redesign Shinano with less steel (in WiTP terms less Shipyard points) so that I wasn't eating up all my resources on it, then maybe. Keep in mind that in CHS you get the choice between Shinano or the unfinished Unryu's. That's 3 carriers versus 1, literally...you can build either the Shinano or the 3 (historically) unfinished Unryu's. Guess which I'd rather have.

[Q-Ball]

RL Hypothetical Question: Suppose in the 1937 Naval Budget, the radical air advocates in the IJN WON. They had some important proponents in the IJN, not the least of whom was Yamamato. (The most radical advocated for the scrapping of the entire IJN and concentrating solely on massive LBA fleets, but that was a small minority). What if the Yamato-class hadn't been built at all, and instead the IJN concentrated on CV construction? What could they have built IRL, by concentrating on CV construction?

I personally don't feel they could have made such a radical decision in 1937, but it is an interesting what-if.

The Shokakus were very capable, but also very expensive vessels, no idea how much Yen exactly, but they sported slightly larger power plants than the Yamatos even, plus all the aviation gear can't be cheap (but neither is an 18in gun turret). No doubt an additional pair of Shokakus would have been important.

No matter how you slice it, Japan losses the war anyway, but still an interesting what if