MLEs

jeffk3510 · Post by **jeffk3510** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:44 am

I just started a new full war scenario as the US. I have never noticed before that there are not any MLEs on the map or scheduled as reinforcements. Am I missing something? I just now noticed this after numerous games!!! I noticed it as I was converting units at Frisco' 1st turn....

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:08 am

You have to convert all of them yourself.

jeffk3510 · Post by **jeffk3510** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:26 am

Wow! I can't believe I have never noticed that. Never using them... I haven't experienced the benefit... but... Does anyone here usually convert a few first turn? Thought I would give it a try this go around....

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:28 am

I usually don't bother, since there was no such thing as an MLE historically.

jeffk3510 · Post by **jeffk3510** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:29 am

Well, that would make sense why there aren't any in the game.

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:44 am

I make 3 or 4 (either side) on turn 1.

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:17 am

Luckily, this particular exploit is C-losed in AE...

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:04 am

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Luckily, this particular exploit is C-losed in AE...

Interesting choice of words: exploit.

In stock you can ONLY reload at a level 9 or 10 port OR a port with an MLE. This is not true in AE. But then, in AE you dont exactly get enough mines to actually reload anything either. Im sure this "oversight" will be corrected in someones mod.

So exactly in what way is this an "exploit"? Sounds to me like it was a game design feature. Thats the way it is in the rules, and players have to convert them on their own, none are supplied, so that sounds to me like "design", doesnt it?

jeffk3510 · Post by **jeffk3510** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:29 am

I can only convert the 7k AKs at Frisco, correct? 

rtrapasso · Post by **rtrapasso** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:58 am

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Luckily, this particular exploit is C-losed in AE...

Interesting choice of words: exploit.

In stock you can ONLY reload at a level 9 or 10 port OR a port with an MLE. This is not true in AE. But then, in AE you dont exactly get enough mines to actually reload anything either. Im sure this "oversight" will be corrected in someones mod.

So exactly in what way is this an "exploit"? Sounds to me like it was a game design feature. Thats the way it is in the rules, and players have to convert them on their own, none are supplied, so that sounds to me like "design", doesnt it?

i think it comes from UV, aka "Mine Tychoon"... mines could easily dominate the game there... they twiddled around with rules and things and came up with MLEs... of course, IRL just about any ship could and did lay mines, just booting the suckers off the tail end of a "ship" (down to fishing boat size) ... of course, dedicated minelayers did it a lot more efficiently (and accurately, i suspect.)

In the actual war, it was number of mines manufactured that was the "bottleneck" (and reluctance to deploy them). From what i was told, that will also be the case in AE.

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:03 pm

I have several times posted a link to mine production figures in the "real war". Trust me, mine production should NOT be a bottle neck, nor should cost. Im not going to look it up again, but to the best of my memory, the US produced 1500 Mk 6's A DAY at a cost of $400 each during WW I so the potential output in WW II would have been staggering (12,000 airdropped mines in a 3 month period anyone?).

In AE players (or at least the ones I played against) use their mine sweepers for ASW boats, as frankly there are very few mines to actually clear. In my last AAR I had taken New Calidonia amd Fiji before mid-Jan. My pace of advance would have been slowed dramatically if I would have to have cleared a mine on my way. As I have often said, the purpose of mines isnt to cause casulties. Its to slow the advance to give the defender time to react.

treespider · Post by **treespider** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:29 pm

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I have several times posted a link to mine production figures in the "real war". Trust me, mine production should NOT be a bottle neck, nor should cost. Im not going to look it up again, but to the best of my memory, the US produced 1500 Mk 6's A DAY at a cost of $400 each during WW I so the potential output in WW II would have been staggering (12,000 airdropped mines in a 3 month period anyone?).

In AE players (or at least the ones I played against) use their mine sweepers for ASW boats, as frankly there are very few mines to actually clear. In my last AAR I had taken New Calidonia amd Fiji before mid-Jan. My pace of advance would have been slowed dramatically if...

...from the beginning the US player had decided to send anything to Fiji ....as it was it took a good week to clear out the defenders that started there....[;)]

Hornblower · Post by **Hornblower** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:51 am

I can't recall a single time that a mine field i deployed by a surface ship actually hit anything.   I had far greater success with SS and LBA's deployed mines...  Got to love the B-29's in the late stage of the game.. 

Yamato hugger · Post by **Yamato hugger** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:08 am

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger

I have several times posted a link to mine production figures in the "real war". Trust me, mine production should NOT be a bottle neck, nor should cost. Im not going to look it up again, but to the best of my memory, the US produced 1500 Mk 6's A DAY at a cost of $400 each during WW I so the potential output in WW II would have been staggering (12,000 airdropped mines in a 3 month period anyone?).

In AE players (or at least the ones I played against) use their mine sweepers for ASW boats, as frankly there are very few mines to actually clear. In my last AAR I had taken New Calidonia amd Fiji before mid-Jan. My pace of advance would have been slowed dramatically if...

...from the beginning the US player had decided to send anything to Fiji ....as it was it took a good week to clear out the defenders that started there....[;)]

With 2 thirds of 1 division. 2 divisions were assigned to the task, but I diverted 1 to take New Caledonia - a force that was not needed, the SNLF assigned would have done it, the division wasnt needed. If I had stuck to the original plan, Fiji was done in 3 days, instead of 7 days. 4 extra days, big deal. Still doesnt have any bearing on what length of time it would have taken if I had to clear minefields before landing.

Edit: I had taken the 4 Jap mine boats, relaoded them at Truk and mined Lord Howe Island after I invaded it, and when your bombardment force hit the island they didnt even discover the minefield. Thats 168 mines, or 5 months production.

bradfordkay · Post by **bradfordkay** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:08 am

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

I can't recall a single time that a mine field i deployed by a surface ship actually hit anything. I had far greater success with SS and LBA's deployed mines... Got to love the B-29's in the late stage of the game..

You'll have to ask Chez about this, but in our CHS game I believe that my ship laid minefields did cause him some concern during his conquest of the SRA. And that was with fewer than 1000 mines in each port.

engineer · Post by **engineer** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:49 pm

I've seen my small Dutch and British laid minefields in the SRA damage battleships, cruisers, merchants, etc. 
 
In one AI game, I sent Allied MSW to clear out Midway ahead of an invasion.  They cleared the mines (they could find) and then when I brought in the invasion TF an LST managed to find a mine that the sweepers missed.  After I captured the island, a "red dot" showed up indicating a hostile minefield.  The MSW, still on hand, went sweeping again and cleaned it up in a turn. 
 
Actually, that sort of "fuzziness" in the intelligence picture is one of the things that I like about WitP. 

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