The Japanese Economy

[Xargun]

This thread will be for tips on what to do (and what not to do) for anyone willing to take on the Japanese Economy. Look for me as we get the game and play a few turns...

Xargun

[Mike Solli]

I suspect I'll be spending a lot of time here. [:D]

[n01487477]

Here's something to start you off ... (my draft, so if it's wrong, let me know)

--Damian--

[pad152]

One issue I still have with the Japanese industry, you can't tell what things cost, like the cost in resources and Heavy Industry does it take to expand a factory?

How much of the heavy industrial is going ship building, amaments, vehicle & aircraft engine factories?

How do you tell if your economy has anthing to spare (spare heavy industry)?

[n01487477]

That's just not true Pad152, there are either utils you can use which will tell you exactly (within reason), ... or you can take notes each turn and work it out for yourself turn by turn or at least see the changes.

Or ask Questions ...
Expand a factory: expansion costs 100 supplies per point expansion & 10 hi per point expansion ...

So doubling (expanding) a (0)x80 to (80)x80; costs 80*100 = 8000 supplies & 80*10 = 800 HI.

Then to actually repair it costs an additional 80*1000 = 80000 supplies, which will only occur if the base has more than 10000 supplies, and this repair rate is only 1 point per day.

As for everything else you mention, start calculating, use a util or play the Allies...

--Damian--

 

[JuanG]

A quick question while I wait for my glacially slow (~40kbps) download;

I remember reading somewhere during development time that Ship Production for the Japanese was now based on the new Tonnage value, not Durability.

However, both the Manual and the diagram above would indicate that we are still stuck with durability?

Anyone confirm this? And anyone in the know who could explain why such a logical move was not made?

[n01487477]

Quickly made tool, so JFB's can muck around & understand the production numbers. IT HAS NOTHING to do with the save file, it is a stand alone application.

http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home?pli=1

Let me know if you have issues, or if my quickly done calculations are incorrect.

--Damian--

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Quickly made tool, so JFB's can muck around & understand the production numbers. IT HAS NOTHING to do with the save file, it is a stand alone application.

http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home?pli=1

Let me know if you have issues, or if my quickly done calculations are incorrect.

--Damian--

I just used your utility. I know you said it had no viruses, but I noticed that my checking account has been drained, all of my stocks in my Schwab account have been sold and the funds transfered. Is this normal ?

[n01487477]

Very normal, pity you didn't have much in there to begin with ... [:D]

[stuman]

ORIGINAL: n01487477

Very normal, pity you didn't have much in there to begin with ... [:D]

Well, the recession, 3 kids , a wife and a stray cat has made it a bit tough [;)]

[Mynok]

As long as he didn't get your beer....[:D]

[ny59giants]

Test Team,
 
In WITP there was a series of post by players on first turn adjustments - stop building this ship, expand HI here and there, expand vehicles, halt aircraft frames here and convert to these, etc. Is there some basic information you could make available on this that you could share??
 
Thanks!  

[Mike Solli]

In the few hours yesterday I had to gather some info (on ships only so far), I've discovered that the use of the merchant fleet has changed dramatically from WitP.  You start with a whopping 51 APs and 1 LSD.  I haven't done the complete analysis, but you have to do what was done historically and convert xAK to xAK-t (the "t" meaning transport, I presume).  Some were already converted at the start, but I suspect more will have to convert as losses occur.  Not sure about that though.  I'll have some numbers later today.  Oh yeah, there are 909 AK types (including 26 of the -t conversions).  That makes 78 "transport" type ships.  Of course, the xAKs can also ship troops, but not many.....
 
More to come.

[Mike Solli]

Another thought came to me in the middle of the night (when I was supposed to be sleeping but thinking about AE). [:D] Port size has become very important.  Specifically, when you send AKs/TKs to pick up the goods, you're ship docking capacity is limited by port size.  Many of the resource/oil/refinery/HI/LI centers are at bases with small ports.  You will need to tailor your TF to fit into that base.  No more 200k TK capacity TFs to Palembang!  Lots of little TFs with limited escorts.  Too many escorts mean not many AK/TKs to haul stuff.  I see more ASW TFs escorting the cargo/tanker TFs.  Without really digging into the escort ship capabilities yet, I see some of these small cargo TFs with a couple of AK/TKs, 1-2 ASW vessels and some AA vessels (depending on location).  Then there's a hefty ASW SC class (CHa-1) that has 8 DC racks, and there are 24 of these ships.  Unfortunately, their endurance is only 1000. [:@] I see them as dedicated ASW vessels assigned to specific ports and used to escort convoys in or out as well as prosecute any sub sightings.  That'll take some work, but they are very nice.  Best of all, they're only 99 tons!

[Mynok]

The transport changes are definitely going to dramatically affect the Japanese plans. Sounds like no more 'who cares about another sunk AP' for the Japanese.

[Mike Solli]

Ok, here's some data on ship hauling capacities. Note that there are some unusual things, such as AKs hauling liquids. 88 xAKs can each haul 300 liquid tons. May come in handy. Also note that some TKs can haul cargo! The 5 largest TKs, Tonan Whalers [:D], can haul 2170 tons of cargo in addition to 15350 tons of liquids. Very nice, but there are only 5 of them so guard them. (I haven't looked at reinforcements for anything, so I have no clue about what's coming yet.)

Take a look at troop transport capabilities. Note that APs make up only 32% of that capacity. Also note that the ability of AKs to haul troops can be increased, but at a substantial cost in cargo capacity.

Also keep in mind that the amount of resources needed to feed the HI and LI centers has increased exponentially. It used to take 1 resource to feed 1 HI factory to produce 1 HI. Now it takes 20 resources (and 2 fuel) to feed 1 HI factory to produce 2 HI. That's 10x what it used to cost. [X(] I haven't looked at centers yet to see how that has changed, but, needless to say, it's going to take lots of AKs to feed Japan's industry. No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

I'm sure this statement was one of the driving factors in the revision of the production system.

Mike, I'll bet you either always carry a calculator in your pocket, or have one on your watch, don't you? [:D]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: USS America

Mike, I'll bet you either always carry a calculator in your pocket, or have one on your watch, don't you? [:D]

Sure, doesn't everyone? [:D]

[Mike Solli]

I recall reading that the Japanese diverted a fair percentage of their merchant shipping to enable them to perform many of the early war invasions.  That will definitely happen here.  We're going to have to look at each xAK class to see what conversions are able to be made (0-5 different conversions depending on class) and figure out what can be spared from cargo hauling to perform other functions.  Very interesting.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
No more droves of AKs sitting in port. [:(]

Damn right!!
Just to make you tear out even more of your hair, you have to be very careful when you talk about “AK/APs”. There’s 3 different kinds.

An xAK (or xAP) is a typical commercial carrier; it has 2-5 ton cranes, a crew of 30-40, and is in general “commercial” service; cargo ‘trash’ haulers, or passenger ‘slave’ ships. They can carry stuff, but load/unload PAINFULLY slowly unless in a port with “facilities”. Some of these had a ‘deep tank’ or a forepeak tank that carried a liquid cargo (av-gas, kerosene, etc ..)

An AK (AP) is a navalized ship, with 10-15 ton cranes, a crew of maybe 300, integral lighters (LCs), and is designed/converted/constructed to haul military cargoes into harms way. Because of their integral deck facilities, crew, and lighterage, they are “relatively” independent of port size restrictions.

An AKA (APA) is a fully navalized assault transport: 15-40 ton cranes, crew of 340-400, Welling davits, LCI, LCVP, LCM up the wazoo. These are the sharp end of the flaming telephone pole looking to be inserted into the bad people’s … well.

You will need to be very, very, very, very, judicious in your selection of just which types are going to perform what sorts of functions.