Speedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

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Speedysteve
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Speedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

Post by Speedysteve »

Hi all,

Dadman and I are 'at it' again after a long break when our last Stock campaign ended. With AE being so new we've decided to try out a smaller scenario to get to grips with this.

The Coral Sea it is...........

I'm the Allies and Dadman the Japanese.

Force dispositions dictate (along with limited resources) that Lady Lex and Yorktown are all that stands between the Japanese and Port Moresby.

The 4th May saw Admiral Speedy order Fitch and Fletcher to close the gap and head west before ultimately heading north towards New Guinea. This would of course leave any enemy invasion of the Solomans open but Moresby is more important for the 'war effort'.

The 4th also saw the first sightings of enemy ships heading SW from New Britain towards the SE tip of New Guinea - presumably heading for PM.

I'm heading my CV's west before north to allow me time to transfer some P40E's into PM. Their isn't the Av Support to support the P40's at PM but if only a few planes get into the air they could make the difference. I'm also moving up more search (PB5Y) and B25C assets into Cairns to aid spotting south of New Guinea and to offer the B25's the chance of long range ship bombing.

All CV squadrons are alert and ready to attack any enemy shipping detected upto 280 miles away. Search efforts are concentrating between NW and E of my TF's....

Here's a sit rep:

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Terminus
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RE: Speeedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

Post by Terminus »

Have fun. I'd be interested in a critique of this scenario, seeing as how I'm responsible for it.
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RE: Speedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

Post by Speedysteve »

Chad Harrison and I are also playing your Aleutians scenario....very interesting up there since we have no idea what each other has or what to expect!
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RE: Speedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

Post by Terminus »

Well, here's hoping you still find it "interesting" when you're done with it...[;)]
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Chad Harrison
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RE: Speedy vs Admiral Dadman: Coral Sea - The US Fights Back!

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, here's hoping you still find it "interesting" when you're done with it...[;)]

Certainly have so far! I am playing as the Japanese and have no idea what he has in store for me. The blind fighting the blind [:D]

Maybe I can get a preview of what is coming from this AAR . . . [:'(]
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5th May 1942

Post by Speedysteve »

Enemy spotted!

Several enemy ships and TF's were spotted by PM Catalina's today. All E/ENE of Milne Bay. Fitch anbd Fletcher report they are within 40 miles of each other. I've orderded them 160 miles north to engage what's reported to be a CV!

4 x S-Boat arre also tracking towards the reported CV location NW of Rossel Island......

All pilots have been briefed and we'll try to close to within 160 miles to allow the Devastators to launch with Torpedoes....

CA Australia, CL Hobart and a DD are ordered WNW to offer some opposition if enemy landing forces continue towards PM.

News from PM Commanders indicates the enemy raided the main airbase with 15+ Nell type bombers. 4 x P40E, which had landed yesterday, were on CAP with 14 more joining at various times. They had a 'field day' and accounted for at least 5 enemy planes with potentially 12 going down in flames. Minimal damage was done to the airbase with a 250KG bomb landing 50 feet outside the perimieter in the Jungle. Local wildlife was p*ssed.

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RE: 5th May 1942

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Several enemy ships and TF's were spotted by PM Catalina's today. All E/ENE of Milne Bay. Fitch anbd Fletcher report they are within 40 miles of each other. I've orderded them 160 miles north to engage what's reported to be a CV!

Are you going to combine the carrier TF's, or leave them single? I have yet to mess around with that in AE, but it was always safer to do so in vanilla WitP.
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RE: 5th May 1942

Post by Speedysteve »

Kept them as separate entities.....

Dadman has informed me no turn until tomorrow now so it's a long wait to see what happens!
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RE: 5th May 1942

Post by Alfred »

Speedy,
 
Are the 4 S class subs the entire available Allied sub fleet in this scenario?  If so what do you think you will accomplish with your beloved subs in this scenario?
 
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RE: 5th May 1942

Post by Speedysteve »

Hi Alfred,
 
Good to see you around.
 
There's another S-Boat coming up from Brisbane plus SS Thresher (I believe) I've positioned east of Rabaul to intercept anything coming from Truk.
 
I don't expect a lot from these guys to be honest. They haven't got any Radar etc.
 
I've just played the first turn vs Uber Jap AI and after the probably 20 hours to get my first turn sorted I'm looking forward to see what I can accomplish with subs.
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Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by Speedysteve »

Hi all,

6th May 1942 saw the first CV battle in the history of humankind.

It was a scatty affair though......

The day started with Catalina's spotting various enemy TF's east of Milne Bay/NW of Rossel Island - composed of CV elements and a probable invasion force bound for PM. The first planes to locate the enemy were 6 x Wirraway's from PM. They located the probable invasion force 75 miles east of Milne Bay. At 10.18AM they reported 3 Zeroes overhead but managed to attack the enemy TF before the Zeroes noticed them. They'd had scant naval bombing training but had rudimentary lessons over the past 2 days. Amazingly one of the 100 lb bomb hit the freighter Asakaze Maru in the bow area. Despite smoke billowing from the wound the ships didn't apepar to be noticeably damaged.

Whilst this was going on Fitch and Fletcher had also launched a full strike against the invasion force. The decision was tough to make but at the launch time no Japanese CV's had been detected. They located the same TF the Wirraways had recently left......

The first wave to locate the enemy were Yorktown's SBD's. 31 of them left 2 freighters sinking and 5 heavily damaged. Hot on their tails were 18 SBD from Lexington who sent two more freighters to their grave. As they were leaving the target area they reported 16 Zeroes arriving on the scene....albeit too late. The SBD's evaded the enemy who hadn't noticed them!

No TBD's took off due to the distance and Lexington's other SBD Squadron faield to locate the invasion force.

Whilst my flights were in the air recon assets had located the Jaopanese CV's and vice versa.

The afternoon saw Fletcher and Fitch launch what they could against the enemy CV's. The Japanese struck first though. 30 Zeroes escorted 39 x Kate and 42 x Val. They zeroed in on the first TF they encountered....Fletchers Yorktown. 16 x Wildcat managed to be on CAP at the height of the raid but they only managed to damage a couple of Vals and Kates before they bored in on Yorktown.......

Yorktown attracted the most attention and was first hit by a 250KG bomb against the belt which caused minimal damage. This was quickly followed by 2 x 60KG bomblets one against the belt the other slightly damaged the forward flight deck. The AA gunners were firing furiously downing 2 Kates and a Val but the attackers kept on coming from all directions. A Val screamed across from the port side planting it's 250KG bomb amidships penetrating the flight deck causing fires. Almost immediately after a Kate came in low from the same direction and a terrific explosion announced the arrival of a torpedo into the Port Side. Thsi was the low point for Yorktown as the enemy attacks were ebbing.......another 250Kg penetrated the flight deck followed by a 60Kg bomblet.

Yorktown although bruised was still in the fight....

The other victims in this ferocious battle were CA Chester hit by 2 torpedoes on the starboard side simultaneously....the rapid succession of these hits caused massive flooding both fore and aft.....the teams are working furiously but it's likely she'll sink before reaching Australia over 400 miles away.

Close by to Yorktown DD Morris had been fighting back with all she had to protect Yorktown. 2 Vals had enough of her though and landed 250Kg bombs fore and aft. Although not sinking fires rage from stem to stern and it's likely she'll be abandoned.

US Retribution was occuring over 200 miles NW.......

42 SBD, 12 x TBD and 22 x Wildcat escort had located the main Japanese CV force. 18 Zeroes were on CAP but neither they nor the Wildcats claimed any kills.

I was hoping for more but 3 x 1000 lb bombs landed squarely into Zuikaku. Although not reported as heavily damaged her flight deck is clearly not open for business as over 40 Val/Kate were lost operationally today.

A poor showing by 29 x SBD/TBD failed to achieve any hits on Shoho........

Although Yorktown is damaged we're continuing to engage moving 80 miles NW......with Zuikaku out of the fights it's Shokaku and Shoho vs Lexington and a damaged Yorktown.

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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by vettim89 »

And yet another AAR where there is a CV battle where the CAP does nothing! Whats the opposite of UberCap? UselessCAP?
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by Erik Rutins »

Don't jump to conclusions based on multiple replays of Coral Sea, the earliest CV battle. We've seen CAP in our testing over the entire war and it does work well (it's not useless), but is not Uber. I've refought much larger CV battles in testing later in 1942 and 1943 and seen CAP do quite well.
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by vettim89 »

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Don't jump to conclusions based on multiple replays of Coral Sea, the earliest CV battle. We've seen CAP in our testing over the entire war and it does work well (it's not useless), but is not Uber. I've refought much larger CV battles in testing later in 1942 and 1943 and seen CAP do quite well.

I don't want to see the return of UberCAP by any means but we have now seen multiple AAR's of the Coral Sea Scenario where the CAP does NOTHING. Not a single plane shot down. There should be a few even at this point in the war.
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by grraven2004 »

Tim,

I agree with Erik. Lets see what some of the other battles do. We haven't really seen much CAP action yet anywhere. Looking at it from just the Coral Sea doesn't give us enough data to see if it is broken. If we get some big clashes in the Guadalcanal or even in the CG scenarios and it still is impotent then hopefully it will be addressed.
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by henri51 »

Ya, this early war, CAP was not very good - but not as bad as the US bombers who couldn't hit a football field if they were sitting on it.... In my Coral Sea game, I failed to sink a single Jap carrier but lost all of my ships- but won the game anyway because I crippled the Jap invasion fleet. In one instance, over 25 US bombers failed to deliver a single bomb on a Japanese carrier. In some attacks, every single Japanese plane hit its ship target.

I guess in those days, US pilots were trained to close their eyes and count to three before dropping the bomb when they approached enemy ships, so they wouldn't be distracted by all the flak...:-)

I see fromo the manual and the screens that pilots can be trained. I'll have to check out how to do that b efore I get into any serious fighting...

Henri

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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by V22 Osprey »

Well if you look early in the AAR the 18 P-40's around Port Moresby were able to take down some Nell bombers, so CAP atleast did something.
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by Speedysteve »

4 + more joining at various times. I like the CAP model personally. I know we all need to see more results etc before making a sound judgment but it feels good to me. A mix of sometimes you win others you lose. At this stage in the war I don't think it should be any different to this IMO.
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by Chad Harrison »

ORIGINAL: Speedy

4 + more joining at various times. I like the CAP model personally. I know we all need to see more results etc before making a sound judgment but it feels good to me. A mix of sometimes you win others you lose. At this stage in the war I don't think it should be any different to this IMO.

I am really enjoying the new A2A system. In our Aleutians PBEM, Speedy's P-40's and P-38's mixed it up with my Zero's and Oscar's. It was a very interesting fight to watch play out, and the battle actually lasted quite some time. Planes added, planes left, some ran, some fought on until they ran out of ammo while others spinned out of control burning. It *feels* much more like the A2A combat I read about in books like Fire in the Sky.

As with anything, I am sure there is room for some fine tuning of the system now that 1000's of us are playing it, but I would never say that the system is broken or way out of wack.

It's new and will take some getting used too. Coming from UBERCAP to a more realistic CAP cold turkey takes some adjusting for sure . . .
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RE: Battle of the Coral Sea

Post by Alfred »

Did the USN CAP have an effect on the accuracy aim or time on target of the IJN bombers?  If yes, that would be a tangible benefit of CAP even if no enemy planes were shot down.
 
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